Ahh...controversy. Intellectual conversations are rife with it, families are torn asunder by it, school boards thrive on trying to eliminate it. You should probably know that I am not someone who shies away from controversy or controversial topics. Quite the opposite, in fact. I believe that controversy and the topics that define it have much to teach us, and I am confident that the subject of this blog will only serve to reinforce that belief. Remember the golden rule of 204--to disagree is not to disrespect. Especially on matters pertaining to the notions of religion.
In 1999, a Gallup poll indicated that approximately 60% of Americans believe that there is a hell. Out of that 60% only 4% were convinced that was their destination. In 2011, ten years later, that number had dropped EXPONENTIALLY to 32%. Interesting, eh? Why do you suppose there has been such a shift?
Next--do YOU believe that hell exists? If so, do you know what it looks like? Smells like? Feels like? Where did your belief come from? Your parents? Your church? Your friends? What do you have to do in order to get there?
The word that is used most frequently in the New Testament for hell is Gehenna. Gehenna is a reference to the Valley of Hinnom located on the south side of Jerusalem, which served as the city's "garbage dump" during Jesus' time. The fires that burned here never went out.
The Old Testament makes a reference to sheol as being a place where spirits reside (Deut. 32:22) and some of them will be resurrected to "everlasting life," while others are bound for "everlasting contempt" (Dan. 12:2)
One is a worldly destination, the other spiritual. Which one sounds more realistic to you?
Dante Alighieri was a prolific writer who wrote the epic narrative poem titled Inferno in which the main character, Alighieri himself, travels through nine circles of hell. The main theme of this particular work is that there is a kind of perfection to God's justice. Sinners on earth are relegated to various circles (or levels) of hell depending on the severity of sin. This would seem to indicate, at least in Alighieri's eyes, that there are varying degrees of sin and that each one is punishable in its own way. Do you believe this? If so, what is the worst sin that you can imagine and how should it be dealt with in hell?
Lastly, is it easily reconcilable in your own religion or any of which you have known to think of God as being the embodiment of love and grace yet imagine that it is through his word that people descend into hell, which is, ostensibly, a place of eternal suffering?
Think about it and let me know..
Everywhere anyone goes, there will always be people who believe or don’t believe in a hell. The shift of 6o% to 32% is very extraordinary because it’s almost half of the previous percent. I think that the reason why there’s a decline is either because there are more people who are not being evangelized, not visiting churches, or not accepting of the existence of “hell.” People who believe that there is no hell might have never been introduced to the Bible, Torah, or Quran. People who have read and believe everything that are in these books are taught to believe in a hell. If you were to ask a modern day Christian if there was a hell, more than likely that Christian will say that there is a hell because he or she was taught about “hell.” The Bible says that Christians have to evangelize and minister to people who have never heard of the “word,” which includes the acknowledgement of hell. Christians are definitely not doing their jobs if there has been such a decrease in people who believe in hell.
ReplyDeleteDue to the fact that my mom was raised in a Catholic family and went to a strict Catholic school and my dad heard about the Bible from a young age and I was brought into a Christian church from a young age; I do believe in a “hell.” Ever since I was a kid, I was taught by my church and my parents to believe everything in the Bible and also believe in hell and that the only way to get there is to sin and not repent or ask God for forgiveness. To this day, I believe in the stereotypical view of hell. I think that hell is a place where Satan reigns and is extremely hot and dark; it smells like something is burning the entire time, and there are people who never asked for forgiveness of their sins.
Hell is probably closest to the New Testament version, Gehanna, because of modern culture, which has always portrayed Hell as a place where there are many brigands and bad people who have never asked for God’s forgiveness. Whenever you watch a Simpsons episode or shows that are satires, you always see the hot and fiery place that hell is. I think that people never take the time to do their research and read the Bible or any scriptures that talk about hell and know what hell really looks like. Almost every American would refer to hell as Gehanna because Gehanna is what people watch, hear, and talk about. I think that hell could be either or because I never visited hell and I never plan to visit hell.
I don’t think that are different degrees of sins; if someone kills someone that is considered sin, if someone cheats that is considered sin, if someone steals that is considered sin. I think that if someone commits a sin that is worse than stealing like murder, there is no validity because there is nowhere in the Bible, Torah, or Quran that says these are the little sins and these are the bad sins. Sin is sin, whether is it big or small, black or white.
I don’t think it’s tough to say that God is the source of love and grace, yet see people descend to hell because the Bible says that people have the opportunity to declare forgiveness for the sins that they have committed. I think it’s foolish that there are people who miss the opportunity to declare forgiveness when there’s ample time left. It’s pretty much like having the chance to say sorry to someone before he or she dies, alleviating a grudge.
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DeleteI would respectfully like to call into question your assertion that the idea of differing levels of sin has no scriptural substantiation. The Roman Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Church impose a belief known as mortal sin. A mortal sin is an act that will automatically send your soul to heaven if unforgiven. They differentiate between sin that eternally damns you and sin that merely weakens you. The Catholic Church substantiates this idea with: “If you see your brother or sister committing what is not a mortal sin, you will ask, and God will give life to such a one - to those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin that is mortal; I do not say you should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not mortal.” (1 John 5:16-17) I am not implying that this invalidates your own ideology. In fact the notion that “sin is sin” is also supported by this very biblical passage. However, the idea of varying sin does have biblical roots and it is taught by the largest Christian denomination.
DeleteI understand that "sin is sin," however I feel as though some sins are necessary evils. If someone is breaking into your home and is on the verge of causing harm to you or your family, disable or kill the intruder. Don't sit there and try to be a martyr! Also, take a look at homeless people that have to steal in order to get their next meal. As long as they are not hurting anyone, let them steal. Although their living conditions may not be idyllic, they still deserve to live. I am more than sure that God is going to forgive these citizens because even though they sinned, if was for the benefit of their family. "Thou shalt not kill" means don't kill so-and-so for his Air Max 95's. This has nothing to do with looking out for your loved ones.
DeleteI agree with your idea that the fact that less people are believing in hell is because they are not really believing in religion in general. If someone doesn't believe in God, it wouldn't really make sense for them to believe in heaven or hell, and I also agree with the idea that hell has kind of been turned into the fiery pit of brimstone with the guy with the horns where you get poked with pitchforks by pop culture, even though that was never entirely what hell was in the first place, at least not the whole thing anyway. But anyway, I really enjoyed reading your blog!
DeleteI would respectfully like to call into question your assertion that the idea of differing levels of sin has no scriptural substantiation. The Roman Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Church impose a belief known as mortal sin. A mortal sin is an act that will automatically send your soul to hell if unforgiven. They differentiate between sin that eternally damns you and sin that merely weakens you. The Catholic Church substantiates this idea with: “If you see your brother or sister committing what is not a mortal sin, you will ask, and God will give life to such a one - to those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin that is mortal; I do not say you should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not mortal.” (1 John 5:16-17) I am not implying that this invalidates your own ideology. In fact the notion that “sin is sin” is also supported by this very biblical passage. However, the idea of varying sin does have biblical roots and it is taught by the largest Christian denomination.
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I understand you being raised to believe in hell. I also believe in the common thought of hell. I believe it is dark and hot. I also agree that there is no levels in hell. Hell is a place that those who have sinned and never asked for forgiveness reside after death. I completely agree that we choose if we go to hell or not. We are given freedom and we have the choice to ask for forgiveness and go to heaven or to have the option not to believe and go to hell.
DeleteI completely agree with you when you say that Christians are not doing their job and spreading the word of God to others. This explains clearly why the drop in percentage of people that believe in hell is so great. I do also agree that shows and movies show hell as the hot and fiery place that bad people spend the rest of eternity. Personally I don’t believe this myself but I do understand why you believe in hell this way. Many people see hell this way and it could be the hot, dark place everyone thinks it is, but we will most likely never know.
DeleteAs you had said, more so of the time what you believe in is based on the way you are brought up or taught. In your case and similar to mine we both have gone to a Christian church since we were of young age, and in which I as well do believe in "hell", and to an extent I see the stereotypical view as well. I agree to most of your view and its very true we don't know for sure the facts, and hope to never know for sure either.
DeleteDavid W, in response to your reference of 1 John 5: 16-17 some thoughts came to mind involving that passage. I do agree that sin is unrighteousness. However, I believe that the passage is referring to sin resulting in spiritual death vs. physical death. For example, in believing the atoning sacrifice of the death and resurrection of your sins, a person will be committed to the will of God and want to live a life in word and deed to exemplify that. Spiritual death would refer to the unbeliever’s state or to the actions of a believer who is faltering due to sin. The passage refers to prayer as an example of our personal fellowship with God where we have a confident assurance that He hears us as we pray for His will to be done in our lives and the lives of others. “Prayer is not a battle, but a response. Its power consists in lifting our wills to God not trying to bring his will down to us.” (Smalley 1984)
DeleteThe world has been on a moral roller coster lately. Between gay and lesbian rights to racism awareness to gender equality, society has been forced to reevaluate its opinions on these topics. One organization that has failed to directly address these issues or failed to side with common opinion has been religion. It is because of this, religion has lost a lot of territory in people’s lives. The Catholic Church refuses to allow female priests, the Judaism sets diet regulations that are hard to live by, and almost all religions have foundations that point to gender inequality. People have become alienated from religion because religion refuses to evolve with society. That is the reasoning behind the dramatic drop in numbers. I personally would be lying if I called myself a religious person, I am a baptized Lutheran but I do almost anything but practice. I believe that hell is in fact just the way people think of you when you die. In other words, where they place your memory. The origin of this theory lies in the fact that I believe what people think about you is important (to some extent). For me, having people hate my image in their mind is hell. There is nothing worse than being hated to and beyond the grave. Complementary to that, I am sure very few people share this view, especially not my family or friends. This theory of mine can be misleading though. It makes me sound like I think people die, are buried in a hole and that’s the end of it. In reality it’s a little more complicated for me. Physically, yes I think your body goes into the ground and stays there. Spiritually, since I think of a person’s memory of you as a version of your spirit in their mind, I guess I can say that there is a spiritual place to which your soul goes. Instead of a cloudy heaven, it’s merely the minds of those who knew you.
ReplyDeleteNow that the physical locations versus metaphorical heavens are sorted out, I also have further developed my opinion to believe that how bad you were to a person directly correlates to what kind of “hell” in which they place you when you die. If you killed a person’s mother, obviously that person will have quite heinous thoughts about you. If you saved your neighbor’s beloved cat from a tree, he or she will place your memory in very high regards in their own brains. The worst sin I can imagine, (I know this sounds mushy and gushy) is breaking someone’s heart. Making someone live with a broken heart is worse than killing them because they have to live with the pain. It’s also worse than torturing someone because those wounds can be healed with medicine, while more often than not the heart breaker is the only one who can undo their actions. In “hell”, a player is forever regarded as the most despicable (insert choice words here) individual walking the earth.
Lastly, God is one confusing figure that I have the most radical views about, but they would take up a whole other journal. It makes no sense to me why the figure that cures all and forgives all still ends up punishing people. If he is so great and powerful, why can’t he make people do the right thing from the start? Why have to end up torturing people? I never like to think too long about religion because it leaves me feeling bad about myself, confused, and just plain angry because of all the prejudice built in and justified by it. With that said, I think a little spirituality is necessary to see the world in a positive glow.
I mean.... genocide kinda outranks breaking a heart on the sin list... right?
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DeleteLike, I see your point that the pain stays with you... but I'd much rather have my heart broken than get castrated by the Craigslist Killer. And I'm more likely to look down on the serial killer than a "heart-breaker". Plus, there is that whole adage about a broken heart being a wound only time can heal. So, you get over it. You don't get over castration.
DeleteI didn’t think of it that way but I completely agree when you say that drop in numbers of people that believe in hell is caused by the strict rules in all the religions. This has caused more people to become nonreligious and therefore not believe in heaven or hell. What you said about hell being an image in people’s minds of where you end up after you die is how I see it as well. It’s not an actual place it’s more of an idea as well as heaven. I really like your post because I agree on everything you said in it! Everything makes more sense when you explain it, so good job.
DeleteJust like you said that you like hearing stuff from more religious people than you, I also like hearing the mindsets of people that are not quite as religious as I am (not saying I'm super religious, but I definitely identify as Christian). I really liked the idea that heaven or hell is the way people think about you in their mind, and it actually is very well thought out, and I really enjoyed thinking about the concept. Awesome blog post!
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DeleteI completely agree with your assessment that the main reason why religious affiliation has decreased so much recently is that religion does not conform or evolve to fit into modern society. Your idea of Heaven and Hell being where people place your memory was very interesting to me. I had never thought of it that way before reading your response, but now I am extremely intrigued by that concept. I think that it holds a lot of truth, because whether or not you believe in Hell, no one can say that they know for sure what happens to a person after they die, because no living man has ever been dead. But one thing that we can be sure of is where we place people in our own minds after they die, and I had never realized that until now.
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DeleteI think you misunderstood my meaning of a broken heart. I think you can break someone's heart by doing such things as killing someone they love or even castrating them. I didn't just mean for the term to apply to intimate relationships, instead I wanted to use it to address any event that could cause a person intense emotional distress.
I've always found it enjoyable reading the opinions of others in topics like these. Although our beliefs are quite different, I do see reasons as to why you'd think what you think. I've always been involved with the catholic church's teachings, so reading the opinion in a more secular view is quite interesting. What really got me thinking though was when you said, "It makes no sense to me why the figure that cures all and forgives all still ends up punishing people. If he is so great and powerful, why can’t he make people do the right thing from the start? Why have to end up torturing people?" After pondering about it, I came up with the conclusion that this, the life we live, is a trial for us. God lets us do what we want and lets us choose our own decisions, and then, after we've lived a life of honesty or sin, he separates those who deserve to go to heaven and those who deserve to go to hell. But then the question still stands, what do you need to do in order to go to hell? Your opinion on breaking someones heart is endearing, but I would have to disagree with you, in the sense that there are plenty more heinous sins that could be committed. To end, great job on yet another blog post! It's always nice to view something in another perspective besides my own.
DeleteI think you're beliefs on religion are interesting because you're totally right because trying to explain it is outright confusing. Because there's no proof for it it's all based on a book you read or something someone tells there's nothing to see with your own eyes. You're belief on the worst sin is interesting too because if you're shot and live you'll experience pain but its bearable and broken heart however can make it impossible to live.
DeleteWow, I must say reading this type of version of a view of Heaven and Hell is really interesting actually. I've never put such thoughts together, but after reading yours this has a good point to it. Souls can be held by the power of the brain, through memories. All and all, many people these days seem to be confused on what they believe in or simply how to display it, I think your view is really interesting though!
DeleteTommi I agree whole heartedly that religion does not evolve with society. I believe in the fact that God’s word is unchanging and therefore will repel people, especially at times when they want to continue to sin. Jesus is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. God is steadfast and faithful in His promises; it is humankind who is fickle in relation to rules or constraints placed upon them.
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ReplyDeleteI don’t think I’m alone when I say that I grew up thinking hell was an actual place, under the earth’s core, that was extremely hot, and people that do bad things go there. In other words, it’s a bad place that no one wants to go to. In church you learned that hell is the devils home and if you sin you will go there. Also in everyday life you hear people say things like “go to hell” when another person does something rude or bad towards them. Overall hell is a negative thing that no one really wants to experience. For the explanation on why so many people stopped believing in hell I honestly don’t know. I don’t understand why the percentage of people that believed in hell went from 60 percent to 32 percent. The only thing I can think of is that more people have become less religious. I do believe that there is a place like hell after you die. I don’t think it is what all the stereotypes have said it is, like I don’t believe it’s hot and under the earth, but I do believe it’s there. Personally I believe in heaven and if there’s a heaven there must be a hell. I believe that people that live great lives in the eyes of the lord are rewarded after they die and their spirit goes to heaven. So if there is a place for the good people there must be a place for the bad people too which I believe is “hell.” I learned about heaven and hell in my church but when I was little my parents and sister would also talk about it. Whenever they referred to hell it had a bad connotation so I always figured it was a horrible thing ever since I was little. In order to get to hell you have to commit a horrible crime. Most crimes such as lying and stealing can be forgiven by praying and asking God for forgiveness but some crimes such as intended murder I don’t think you can really be let off the hook for that. Also someone that murders another person on purpose is probably not praying to God for forgiveness. I think of hell as more of a spiritual place and not an actual, worldly destination. I believe you can’t just go visit hell whenever you please I think it’s a place that after you die your sprit is sent to. Like I said, I think that there are different degrees of sin and they are dealt with differently in the afterlife. If you commit a minor sin and pray for forgiveness I believe that you’re still going to go to heaven because God is a very forgiving person. However those people that commit horrible crimes such as murder have to pay for what they did in the afterlife. For example if someone committed murder during their life, after they die their spirit is going to be trapped somewhere in “hell” and it can never get out. But if you are good during your life you are rewarded in heaven somehow. Also if you are good I think that your spirit can be with your family if that makes any sense. For example I believe that after my grandpa died he went to heaven and I know he’s always here with me, helping me through tough times, and giving me guidance on all the hard decisions I have to make in my life. If you are bad during your lifetime I don’t think you are able to do these things. I am not a very religious person but, yes I do believe that God is the embodiment of love and grace and if you decide to follow him and worship with him he will reward you with his love and grace. The people that do not choose to follow him and continue to do bad things he will send them to this eternal place of suffering. Personally I don’t think there is anything wrong with this; it sounds pretty fair to me.
ReplyDeleteIt's always interesting to hear people's beliefs about the various aspects of religion when they come from a more religious perspective than I do. Your point that since there is a heaven there must be a hell makes perfect logical sense in my mind. It basically embodies the fundamental that you can't have good without evil. I can't say I agree with you about it being fair for a god to punish its own creation but not on the grounds that you explained which was punishment for wrong doing. I disagree because I think that a god should be able to prevent its people from wrong from the start. Overall, I agree with the rest of what you had to say, it was a very well written response.
DeleteI totally agree with your response, I think there is a heaven and a hell. The only way anyone goes to heaven is because people do good deeds in their lives and ask for forgiveness. My family and I aren't so pious by going around being total Jesus freaks and condemning every sinner we see, but my family and I try to walk our way into heaven causally. Don't get me wrong, there are many times when I have sinned and done wrong but I think if I ask "God" for forgiveness, I'll be ok. I never had a death in my family, but I had close friends pass away and it hurts a lot. I think people who passed away are in heaven and are happy with where they are.
DeleteI definitely agree on you're ideas of heaven and hell if one exists so does the other. In addition I agree you're beliefs on being with you're loved ones in heaven after death because what is eternal life without those who have made the most of our life on earth.
DeleteLets start with you for sure are not alone, I used to have the same idea of hell, it was just the stereotypical view of what this place was. But in reality people use it as the place where people go if doing wrong-doings. For the most part we view it as the way we have been taught to view it, people that don't ask for forgiveness and commit wrong doings are sent to hell after they die, and those who try to live as a good person go to heaven. For the most part I can agree with your views on this topic, as I read I kept nodding my head in agreeing with you.
DeleteI totally agree with your beliefs. Hell is always steriotyped as a dark got place, but in reality just like you said, how will we ever know?
DeleteIt's kinda funny because I thought I was the only one who really thought that Hell was a real life place when I was little- right under the ground. So maybe If we dug far enough we would get to it. And I thought that Heaven was right above the clouds, so on the airplane I thought I was so close to Heaven. Makes me realize how much television influences our minds and thoughts on perceiving things.
DeleteBorn into a religious family, constantly going to church every weekend, and having gone to a catholic school, it’s safe to say that I’ve always been taught that there is a heaven and a hell. I’ve never questioned whether there was a “hell” until now. Do I know what it looks like? Smells like? Feels like? No, no, and no. Yet, I believe there is a hell. The whole foundation of my life has revolved around the catholic church and it’s teachings, so I don’t really know any other opinions besides that. Ever since I was born, I’ve always been taught that almost everyone goes to heaven, but there are certain people who go to hell. I don’t think I’ve ever asked my religious education teacher what someone has to do to go to hell, but I’m almost positive that it has to be something quite drastic. As for the reason as to why the number of people who believe there is a hell dropped from 60% to 32%, I think this is due to the fact that more people are becoming atheists and/or have no particular religious affiliation. A poll taken in 2012 recovered the statistics that there are 13 million self-described atheists in the United States (around 6% of the population) and there are 33 million people that say they have no religious affiliation whatsoever (around 14%). What used to be the worlds most religious country is slowly turning into a society driven by science and evolution.
ReplyDeleteContinuing onto the topic of whether or not hell exists, (which I think does) I’m not quite positive on what it actually takes to get to hell. I think mostly everyone’s answer to that question would be that, in order to go to hell, one must take another’s life for selfish reasons. Call me crazy, but I don’t think that dictates whether or not someone goes to hell. I’m sure killing someone plays a factor as to whether or not God chooses to send you to heaven or to hell, but I don’t think that is the sole reason for someones placement. Besides that, I’ve always thought heaven and hell were spiritual places where our souls go to in the afterlife. As children, I think we are mislead by the ideas of hell. In the children’s movie, Hercules, it shows that hell is an actual place on earth where the lives of the people are in the hands of three blind old ladies, who cut a string at someones brink of death. Logically, I believe that when we die, our bodies are left to rot and decompose, but I personally believe that our souls are in the hands of God, after death.
Going back to my religious affiliation, I’ve always been taught that if you ask for forgiveness, God will give you forgiveness. People make mistakes. I may not know what goes on in the mind of a murderer but I’ve got a feeling that their intentions of killing someone go beyond just as a pastime (wow, doesn’t that sound vindictive?!). With that, I’d have to disagree with Dante Alighieri’s stance on different sins having different levels in hell. To end, I do believe there is hell. In my opinion, God is the embodiment of love and grace. He places us on this earth in preparation for what is to come in the afterlife. He lets us do as we wish, and lets us decide for ourselves. Then, when our time on earth has ended, he will choose as to whether or not we will ascend to heaven or descend to hell, based on the actions we’ve chosen.
I can definitely empathize with your concept of hell as I was raised Catholic as well. I also agree very strongly with your opinion as to why the number of believers in hell has dropped. Some seem to argue that this is a result of a crisis of confidence. And to a degree it is, but it is a crisis pertaining to the institution of religion period. The fact that you made an intelligent speculation by using statistical figures is a breath of fresh air. Also, I find your evaluation of the mind of a murderer slightly disturbing but in a good way. It lends a unique perspective because not many wish to understand the horrible mind capable of committing such a sin. This opened up my mind to the possibility that the likely capacity to commit sin is in itself hell.
DeleteI am not Catholic so I have no idea what going to a Catholic school would be like but I find it rather fascinating that you grew up with a very small scope of opinions when it came to heaven and hell. In my family, by the time my dad tried to make me an active member at my Protestant church, my older siblings had already been exposed to a more secular crowd. The end result is that my religious background is as thin as string. But even with this difference I still agree with you that a lot more would have to go into consideration when deciding if someone should go to hell than just one action. This is a really complex topic and I like how you addressed that.
DeleteI can't imagine what it would be like to attend a Catholic school or even have a very religious family, because within my own family my mom is the only one who is religious at all (although she believes in enough stuff for all four of us, if you ask me). I went to church while I was young but there was never any real pressure for me to accept those beliefs absolutely; Catholic school seems like it would be a much stricter environment. It's also interesting that you were never given a clear idea on what exactly you have to do to go to hell- I suppose it doesn't really matter in the end, as long as you know that a punishment exists. In a way, being more vague about what exactly would land you eternal suffering would encourage better behavior because you have to be extra careful. One thing you mentioned that I found interesting was how God 'put us on earth in preparation for what is to come in the afterlife'- is that saying that all life before death is just a prologue, of sorts? That's certainly a different stance that I haven't heard much but I suppose to many people heaven is the ultimate goal. Heaven is place that is peace and happiness, in my understanding. Believing in an afterlife offers people comfort and stability; it's something to look to no matter how terrible your life might be. That's why religion is so important to people. To believe that there is nothing after death, that there are no second chances... that's scary. It's understandable to want some sort of promise that death isn't the end.
DeleteYour statement that you are unsure whether or not murdering someone would condemn you to Hell for sure was very interesting to me. I interpreted it as you were trying to say that the fact that at some point in your life you committed a murder does not automatically mean that you have no chance to escape the grips of Hell. If this is what your intention was, then I agree with you completely. I do not believe that one sinful act is the only determining factor in your eternal life. I also concur with your belief that when we die, our bodies pass away but our souls are in the hands of God.
DeleteAlthough I am not Catholic, I understand being raised in a religious household and going to church. Being from a religious upbringing, I feel that type comments match to mine. Especially when it came to Dante Alighieri. I agree with you saying that there is no levels to hell. Hell is a place for those souls who have done an immense amount of wrong in this world and that there is no degree in which you suffer in hell.
DeleteI can definetely relate to how you feel like you hould believe in all of the religious ideas that you were taught as a kid, but how you also want to create your own midset of what heaven and hell really is. It was interesting to find a similar feeling with another person in class concerning the battle between religious processes and our own thought process.
DeleteI also agree with the fact that intentions and the situation have an impact on the sin. Like how killing in self defense is accepted by society, killing for revenge is much decently less so, but people can see the reasoning behind it, and killing for fun is just completely wrong and irredeemable. Also, I feel that how you feel about the act itself plays a part in it too, if you don't feel remorse, the you really don't seem to be looking for forgiveness in the first place. I really liked your blog post, and I agreed with it as well, for the most part. Great job!
DeleteI would have to agree with you Paula, when you say that humans are put on earth to make choices, to do as they please. Then when time is up god will choose based on how that life was lived whether or not hell is or is not appropriate for that life. That just makes perfect sense to me.
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ReplyDeleteReligion has always been, and continues to be a fiery topic among people of almost any age. I think this is partially due to the fact that there are an innumerable amount of interpretations when it comes to forming an individualized opinion on religion. Religious beliefs are quite often influenced immensely by the viewpoints of your family, and those who came before them. But that is not to say that every child professes an identical religious standpoint to that of their parents. As we grow older we become more capable of structuring our own opinions, and it is then that we stray from what we were taught when we were young, and we begin to piece together our own thoughts and ideas about religion.
Science continues to flourish and dig its roots deeper and deeper into every aspect of society. As science continues to offer new theories, religion is slowly phased out in the minds of those who may have once believed. I think that increasing scientific knowledge plays a key role in the rapid decrease in religious affiliation and belief. Religion is also one facet of society that refuses to evolve and adapt to the modern world. In the eyes of many, religion is outdated and in need of a tune up. Religion does not conform to the growing radical world that we live in, and that is the reason why its popularity persists to suffer.
If you motion toward the sky and ask a group of children what you are pointing to, I am sure a majority of them would answer ‘Heaven’. Conversely, if you point down and venture the same question, ‘Hell’ would be the popular answer. The result of this common conception is that Heaven is good and Hell is bad. But good and bad are not the proper words to describe these places. Do I believe in Heaven and Hell? I absolutely do. And my personal opinions are undeniably very unpopular, especially in modern society. But my standpoint on Hell is that it is far more than a place where bad guys are sent when they die. When you die, your body is laid to rest in the ground, but your spirit does not pass away with your body. Hell is a place of eternal suffering; it would be a difficult to argue that point. Whether or not you believe in Hell, it will always hold a negative connotation in your mind, simply because the religious relationship to the word has been stripped completely from our association to it. I think that Hell was created by God as the final resting place for all who do not enter Heaven through the salvation offered by Jesus. I realize that it is hard to understand why God, who is often misconceived to be an all loving being, would cast people to a place of eternal suffering. But to question why a “good” God would create Hell is not much different than questioning why good intentioned governments would create prisons. Punishment is not a consequence of love, but rather it is a consequence of justice. So it is sensible that God would allocate justice in the decision of your eternal residency. My beliefs in Heaven and Hell have certainly been fostered by my parents, but I refuse to conform to their exact beliefs. No two people think the same way, and as an individual I have developed some of my own thoughts about religion as I have gotten older.
Part Two:
ReplyDeleteIt is impossible for me to say what Hell is like because I have obviously never been there. I have a very stereotypical vision of it in my mind, but I don’t think I could ever envisage what Hell must truly be like. From my understanding, it is a place of total darkness and aloneness. As for what must be done to gain entrance to Hell, my belief is a highly controversial one. I do not believe that any one sin can be rated worse than another. Stealing a cookie out of the jar after your mother told you not to, or committing a murder are both sins, and equal in the eyes of God. A sin is a sin is a sin, no matter how small or large we try to quantify them. In our minds we try to reason this out, and when we imagine the kind of people that must be in Hell we suppose it is men such as those who plotted the 9/11 attacks, or oppressive dictators that are murdering thousands of people in their countries. We think this way because that is a rational answer, it makes sense. Those people are evil, we cast them to our own mental Hell because of the sins they have committed. But the Hell that we create in our minds for evidently evil people differs immensely from the Hell created by God. And as awful as it may sound, God does not have a scale against which he measures the sins of people.
Religion is a mind boggling topic if contemplated for too long. I would be lying if I said that a times I don’t doubt my own beliefs. There are so many places for the mind to wander, and it is seemingly impossible to wrap your head around every aspect of religion and try to make sense of them all. And it is the fact that we cannot seem to make sense of it all that causes so much diversity among people around the world.
The whole concept of 'a sin is a sin is a sin' sounds way too extreme to me. To equate stealing to mass murder is ridiculous- to think that anyone would be punished the same way for those two crimes is equally ridiculous. I suppose it makes sense for an entity that is all knowing and all-powerful to have a different moral perspective than humans though. Anyone who claims that they would know the mind of a god does not grasp what a god would be- a creature so far beyond human understanding that it exists on another realm. So if you consider it this way, a god who punishes humans equally and is not constrained to whatever morality/justice system humans might have almost makes more sense. But to imagine that the thing that created you cannot even understand you, nor can you understand it... that's almost as scary as hell itself.
DeleteI absolutely agree with you that we often start out with opinions close to our parents but then begin to carve our own paths once we grow older and are exposed to more things in life. When we are young, it seems like our parents know everything so naturally we take on their opinions but once we start school and come across the ways of others, we start to create ideas that are entirely our own. Furthermore, I couldn't have more approval of your comment that religion is outdated. Your comparison between god's hell and government's prison has really created a new perspective for me. In summary, I found reading your blog has left me with a lot to think about.
DeleteThe analogy of God making hell with governments making prisons was the most powerful device I found in your post. The analogy was just brilliant. Overall, I just love this post.
DeleteNow, whether any of you know it or not, I'm a Christian. I don't usually go out of my way to tell someone, because there are a lot of people who don't share the same beliefs, and even more militant atheists, as I have seemed to experience so far. I just felt like in the context of this blog, I should state my beliefs outright, so yes, I'm a Christian, and being a Christian, I believe there is a heaven and a hell. Now I can definitely understand why less and less people are deciding to accept the concept of hell, I mean, it is quite literally the worst thing you can imagine. This, along with the fact that there are less people who believe in general going into the future, makes the fact that the amount of people believing in the existence of hell went from 60 to 32 percent make perfect sense. Now, of all the people that do believe in hell, a lot of people see hell in a lot of different ways. To me, I see it as the obligatory hellfire and brimstone setting when I think about it on a general level, where people that have led detestable, bitter lives go to find suffering, and to me, it is a spiritual plane of existence, because who here has actually seen a place that could easily pass as hell (other than Detroit and the DMV). But when you look at the concept of hell deeper, you can't really disagree with the fact that there need to be layers in it. I mean, the guy that stole purses his whole life can not be in the same level of punishment as the guy who tried to wipe out an entire race of people. Punishment needs to be more severe for different people. To me, the very worst kinds of sin are not just evil acts, but evil acts done to children. People like child abusers and anybody who would ever do anything to harm a child would have to be the scum of the Earth. Sure, if you kill a man then you are evil. But if you kill an innocent child, who is a clean slate on humanity, you truly deserve the worst layer of hell. Now, you may ask, if your God is a loving and caring God, then why is there even a hell, shouldn't all of the people that believe in him go to heaven? To that I say, there's only so much forgiving that even the most forgiving entity in existence can give. Say you were a parent, and you walk into your house, to find your son or daughter shooting heroin, and you said "I forgive you, but this is wrong, and you should not do this again, it is wrong." Not only does your child not feel remorse, but you come to find them the next day wearing what looks like sleeves made entirely of heroin syringes. Oh, and he killed like, 7 people before breakfast. I think you're drawing the line at that point. The forgiveness is done. That is how God feels, all the time, and there are some truly evil people in the world that do not feel remorse for the bad things that they do, and they shouldn't be allowed into heaven. That being said, if someone truly feels remorse for a sin they've committed, and don't continue doing it, they should be allowed into heaven, or at the very least, get sent to purgatory to atone for their sins before coming to heaven. But as you can see, there is a very fine line for what gets a person sent to hell, and that line differs in each individual's mind, so if anyone has their own insight, feel free to share it with me, I know I'm going to be reading quite a few of these myself.
ReplyDeleteTom, the reference that you made to the DMV really made me chortle. Just like you, I believe that there are circles of hell depending on the severity of the sin. The least severe circle would have to be, like you mentioned, petty theft. The most severe is more than likely reserved for the amoral folks of our society, such as Richard "The Iceman" Kuklinski. I also agree that God is a forgiving entity. If you have to steal bread from a bakery, than so be it. Your family needs to eat in order to survive. On the other hand, if you are stealing for fun, killing people, and setting buildings ablaze, then God may not be so forgiving. At the end of the day, it is what each individual believes about their God; I haven't a heaven nor a hell to put them in.
DeleteYour response is probably the best I have seen so far that embeds humor and honesty. I know what you mean when you wrote that it’s difficult to say that you believe in a great-high being because there are many atheists in our school and I feel like they wouldn’t understand the view of a Christian. However, I don’t think there are a variety of sins or different kinds of punishments, the sins anyone commits are sins, whether the sins committed are worse than another. People may argue that there are necessary evils, but I think that God knows everything and knows the reason for everyone’s sins. At the end of the day people who are faithful will eventually ask for forgiveness and sent to heaven because God knows everyone’s story.
DeleteYour stance on killing a child, rather than killing a man being more heinous is interesting, but I'd have to disagree with you on that. I don't think that just because someone killed someone who's 6 is worse than killing someone who's 60. I think both are equally punishable. I like to think of everyone as equals. Besides that, I agree with you in the sense that God can only do so much forgiving. I believe that if we sin, and ask for forgiveness, we will receive it. But if we continue to repeat the same sin, that forgiveness will be revoked. If God constantly forgave us, then we could just sin again and again and ask for forgiveness again and again. There would be no point in punishments or hell, because if everyone was just forgiven, we'd all go to heaven. To end, I really enjoyed reading your post. It contains similar beliefs as my own, and then some.
DeleteYour thoughts made me think that their might be levels of hell. I Benet though of those of sick who did petty theft or any other not so bad crimes. But I personally feel that overall there isn't a level system of hell. I think that you suffer am immense amount of pain in hell no matter the crimes you have done in this earth. I believe that there can be forgiveness as well. (By the way the DMV statement made me laugh!)
DeleteTom, your voice is unmistakable. Your sarcasm and hyperbolic scenarios made this blog post genuinely entertaining. I find your points about God only being able to forgive to a certain extent very interesting. I cannot help buy share my own ideology. I hope I don't come off as one of those militant atheists you describe; they make nonreligious people look bad. I will argue from the point of view of a fellow Christian with different beliefs. Jesus Christ's doctrine of salvation is centralized around the idea that anyone can gain entry into the Kingdom of God as long as one seeks salvation. I agree that abusing this doctrine isn't particularly the right thing to do but it is the procedure that is stated in the New Testament. From my own ideological stand point, I believe the number one unattractive thing about religion is the fact that people often expect God to fit their narrow minded expectations. This weakens the notion that God created Man in his own image. Instead, it seems more likely that Man create God in his own image. But the fact that God is supposed to be all loving and all powerful suggests that his capacity to forgive is both unlimited and always offered. To put God’s ethical standards as it pertains to forgiveness on the same shelf as anyone personal ideology is to undermine the existence of God Himself.
DeleteTom, I have to agree your post is my favorite because of what it incorporates, which is humor and true beliefs which I agree with like, the worst crime it is awful when people do that to innocent little beings. I also believe, as do you, that there are multiple levels to hell depending on the crime committed, and that there is a hell because only so much forgiveness can be given before they should be punished.
DeleteI would have to disagree when you said it's different killing a 6 year old rather than a 60 year old. Yes, of course it is going to affect more people seeing a young little kid get murdered, but theres no reason it should be more okay to murder a 60 year old.
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ReplyDelete"What would a Man gain if he gains the whole world and loses his soul." as the Holy scripture says.In a religious family, I tired my best as a child to do the right things all the time not only for the fact that gifts was given to the good child of the day but actually I grew up hearing stories about how heaven and hell looked like and seriously I didnot wish to be in the devil's shoes.Most of the stories were editted by my Grandmother, I guess to scare me more however despite her own scary version it helped me live at least a righteous life.
ReplyDeleteThe drastic decrease in the believe of the existance of hell is for the fact that, I think some people were not brought up in a religious family. As the Bible says,"train up a child the way he should go so when he grows he does not depart from it." These people may not have being told religious stories about hell when they were young but it may not be too late but it would be difficult to convince them because most children believe in stories and it sticks in their minds forever.
Moreover, it also depends on the individual since some people are skeptical about almost everything and later when they grow up they turn to believe in whatever they want.
Brought up in a catholic and Presbytarian family, you hear of hell in your sleep, when eating and even at the bathroom. The messages of hell came from anywhere we found convinient to discuss the Gospel. I understand that in the eyes of God every sin is judged the same but personally I think when you kill or torture someone that causes the person to wish to be end his/her life. As my Grandmother use to end every story," a time lost can never be gained ." what I learnt from that I should be good whiles there is still time so that on the judgement day i may not fall short at the sight of God.
Your stand on hell and religion is similar to mine. I think that the reason why there has been a decrease in the people who believe in hell is because believers are not ministering to people. It’s awesome how you incorporated verses from the Bible because the Bible says everything a believer should follow. I totally agree with you opinion on people who are very skeptical. Due to modern tends, there are more nihilistic people because there has been a lot of scientific research that denies the existence of God. Some of the scientific research that I have read seems very accurate and I sometimes question the existence as well, but I always ask myself if there are many researches that deny the Bible, why is the Bible still on the face of the Earth after thousands of years and still being read and still being talked about? If the Bible is wrong and everything in the Bible is made up, why haven’t people forgotten about the Bible?
DeleteYour idea of why a shift in the belief of hell has changed reminded me alot of what I was thinking. Like you pointed out, not only are people beginning to be more open minded to new ideas of why we are here on Earth in the first place, but it is the skepticism that also makes a great impact on popular belief.
DeleteI think you thought about this response a lot and made your point right away. You and I have similiar views and it is cool to see how you including meaningful scripture to make your point clearer!
Delete"A time lost can never be regained". That's deep. I've always been an advocate for not wasting any time at all and that just sums up my thoughts. While we may differ on why we wish to not waste any time, at the end of the day we both have one common goal: to be good people. Your grandmother was a smart woman and she taught you well, I enjoy your scriptural examples, they show your knowledge of the subject at hand. Good post Stav.
DeleteI have a couple of comments on your blog post. Your theory on why there has been a drastic decrease in the belief of hell isn’t necessarily true. Take it from me, I am living proof. I was born into a very religious family that is very active in the church to this day, but I no longer believe in hell. I grew up not only with my family teaching me about Catholicism, but also my friends, and my teachers because I went to a Catholic school. I have a good understanding of Catholicism and Christianity in general, and frankly, I think it is pretty unrealistic and contradictory.
DeleteJust like Dom said, we all have similar views on this whole heaven and hell controversy. It's very interesting to see it from your point of view since you're from a different country. It puts everything in a perspective to know that these religions are practiced around the world, its very cool!
DeleteStav, I think you touched on a similar point I made in my post -- that the increase in diversity (what you phrase as being brought up in a non-religious family) has led to the decrease. At least, that's what I interpreted that to mean. If I am wrong, please correct me.
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ReplyDeleteBefore I go off on any sort of religious discussion, I think there's an important disclaimer to give out: I'm an atheist. I don't believe in any sort of god or deities, whether that is the almighty Christian God or some sort of nature spirits people used to worship... it's all the same to me! I came to these conclusions on my own time; I did indeed go to church quite frequently while I was younger and had been imbued with all sorts of religious minded thoughts so it was not a mindless decision on my part. My own mother still bemoans the fact that she's surrounded by a bunch of godless atheists, but she's not likely to change my mind at this point. The statistics you presented are actually very interesting to me, because it just shows how extreme religious faith is becoming less and less common new generations are born. The United States is still a very religious country, but it's it will be interesting to see how much that declines as the years pass. I don't really have a problem with anyone's religious beliefs as long as they don't try to impose them upon anyone else or act like it makes the morally superior. Organized religion as a whole though, I may have some opinions on that that would make people angry. I think this whole concept of hell is one example how religious institutions can produce some pretty screwed up ideas, for all the comfort religion might bring people. The underlying reason for why the concept of hell was created is fairly obvious: it discourages people from doing morally unacceptable things, referred to as sin in a religious context, by offering them a definite and tangible punishment in the 'afterlife'. And the thing about hell is that it's supposed to be an eternity, just like heaven is said to be, right? Humans can hardly wrap their minds around the concept of eternity, but imagine being tortured for your entire life, double that lifespan, one thousand times that period of time- it's a pretty effective punishment if one believes in it. It's a scare tactic basically- be good or you will be punished forever. A bit of an overkill but when you're facing eternity you damn well better behave. But the thing is, the idea of hell is seriously frightening. The idea that you could do something wrong and be tortured for eternity? That's horrifying, especially to a little kid who would believe what they're told wholeheartedly. I still remember watching this documentary about children sent to church camp and it was grade-A horror movie material. Watching the children burst into hysterical tears and saying they were sorry after being yelled at about how they were all going to hell if they were bad kids was disturbing, to say the least. Sure, not all churches go to such radical extremes to make their point but it's still something being taught to children. And personally, I find it rather insulting when people think religion is necessary to have some sort of moral compass. Do we really have so little faith in our fellow man that we need to believe that there will be some hypothetical punishment awaiting us in order to avoid doing bad things? And if threat of hell looming over their heads is the only reason why a person makes the right decision that's more than a little disheartening, isn't it? (part 1)
ReplyDelete(part 2)
ReplyDeleteI think everyone has a different concept of what hell is, just like everyone has a different concept of what heaven (or whatever other eternal reward they believe in) should be like. While it's interesting to read that the hell may have started out referring to a physical place, I think to most people in modern times hell refers more to a place where your spirit goes. It is not like the Greek's Underworld, where you could apparently waltz in at any time. The most common depiction of hell these days does seem heavily influenced by Dante's Inferno; someone like me who doesn't put much thought towards this hell thing still has a vague picture of some fiery pit full of tortured souls. The whole 'different levels of punishment' is pretty appealing too. It might mean you won't ber quite as screwed over from your drinking problem as that other dude who murdered his wife. Indeed, the worst 'sin' I could imagine was the murder of another human being- and this would receive the harshest punishment in return. To think that every single bad action should receive punishment to the same degree of severity is kind of absurd. Hell seems to be a very vaguely defined system on the whole, but then again a lot of things in religions are very vague because most religions are just going off a few holy books they have laying around here and there. It's bound to skimp out on details in a lot of places. The whole thing about a 'just and loving god' and then 'horrific torture if you do something bad' has always been one of the concepts that baffled me about Christianity. There are a million contradictions that could be pointed out, but this seems like a rather big one. If you truly wanted to believe in a god that was good and infinitely kind, wouldn't that mean discarding the concept of hell? They seem to be in direct conflict with each other. There are so many things about religion that I could go off about, but I think I should end it here before I get too offensive for anyone. But it's always good to think a bit about the things you've been taught- the same goes for religious teachings! Maybe you'll realize there's something that doesn't quite make sense to you; then you can choose what you want to believe.
I found your stance on hell very interesting. We share very different beliefs, I being a Catholic and you being an atheist, but you do have a good point in that hell is basically a scare tactic. To you, it's nothing but made up place, to me, it's a place where all catholic's hope to never end up in. But the concept stays the same. The "idea" of hell is basically just proposed to convey people to be more morally correct and a good person in general. It's not a bad thing, to be a better person, but the idea of going to hell and being tortured for eternity (a concept which we have no proof of other than our own religious beliefs) is terrifying. Although I believe that there is a hell, I have no clue whatsoever what goes on down there other than the fact that those who sin go there. No one has ever died, gone to hell, and came back to tell the story. My beliefs are what they are, beliefs. I can't prove them as you could prove why two plus two equals four, but I can say that my opinion remains whether or not others believe in it or not. In addition, we share very similar opinions on religion. I too, don't mind when people share their beliefs with me, just as long as they don't try to impose them on me.
DeleteI always enjoy when we have these conversations with you Paige. Though my views are completly different from you I continue to find it interesting on how it is observed from another perspective. I was always that person that will be very open about my religious beliefs but i agree with you and what Paual said when it comes to not minding other peoples beliefs as long as they don't try to impose them on me.
DeleteAlthough our opinions on this topic differ immensely, I really liked some of the points that you made. I also have some pretty strong opinions about organized religion. I do not belong to a church, and I haven't for a very long time, my views on religion were developed on my own time the same way that yours were. I agree with your statement that everyone has a different concept of what Heaven and Hell are like, and I think that the overall view of Hell in the minds of most people is, as you described it, a fiery pit of tortured souls. And although I do not completely agree, I was intrigued by your depiction of Hell as a scare tactic used to keep people in line. That is a very interesting way to look at it, and I had never thought of Hell that way before reading your post.
DeleteYou bring up a good point about how you could poke holes in the beliefs of Christians but they won't care. The same can be said of all religions. It's just a matter of faith, even with science. Before something is proven you have to believe on the fact that it is right. Faith is a funny thing, it can make good and evil.
DeleteBryanna, I think it's really good that you could develop your own beliefs on your own time! I think that's an opportunity everyone should be given, and not just in regards to religion. So many people are afraid to state their beliefs and talk freely about who they are because society pressures them to believe one thing or behave one way. We should all be given a chance to come to our own conclusions about things and then we can go out and find people who agree with us- you know, as long as we're not coming to very bad conclusions that will harm others.
DeleteI'm not saying that I disagree with your point that Christianity is very contradictory because it is. I just wanted to add onto your knowledge about the Christian belief of God’s relation to hell. God sent an archangel that betrayed Him to a place called hell where he would live for eternity along with anyone else who betrays Him. Also, Lucifer, the archangel that betrayed God, was given his own kingdom (hell) as a gift. My point is that everyone has a free will. They can ask for forgiveness for their wrongdoings, and they will be forgiven. God doesn’t send people to hell. People send themselves to hell according to Christian beliefs.
DeletePaige, although I don’t agree with many of your opinions I do agree with you on some things. I also have no problem with someone’s belief as long as they don’t try to impose them upon me. My faith to my religion is very important to me because of some personal life experiences. But I respect your views very much especially the idea that hell is used as a scare tactic.
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ReplyDeleteHell what a place to think about. When I think about Hell, a shiver comes among me. I think to myself, " I don't wanna to go there". I was raised to believe that if you do evil things in the world and if you don't believe in God, you will go to hell. This place was described to me as extremely hot and that is scary. It's the worst imaginable place you could ever think of. This is what I was taught. I assume it would smell of burning human flesh. I imagine hearing tears of pain and cries of the many souls that want too leave hell. The feeling I get from what I have been taught of this place is immense fear. I guess the feeling I would have in hell would be fear, regret, sorrow, depression, and maybe the feeling of dieing over and over again. This place sounds in bearable. I suppose I learned of this place and what it looked like from my parents and church. I have had a great fear of hell ever since I can remember. From what I learned and from everything I know of hell, spirituality was the root of you going to hell or not. If you sinned in this life on earth, had never asked for forgiveness, and didn't believe in God, your punishment was hell. Your Soul would be sent to hell. You would be there for eternity and live your sentence with terrible treatments. I have heard that if a man raped people, they might be castrated continuously. If you talked about others your tongue would be cut off everyday. And if you murdered people, you might burn in the pits of hell for eternity. There are even thoughts that insects will crawl inside of your body continuously. This is the hell I personally know of. From what I have learned about heaven, it is a place of complete serenity. It is for those who followed the words of God on earth, believed in God, praised him, believed in his son, believed in his sons resurrection in the days, and did not idolize anyone but he, you would go to heaven. Heaven is a sanctuary. The place is filed with gold as the streets. There are Angels that are everywhere, and of course Jesus and God are there. It is the ultimate place to find happiness. This place is everything you could imagine that is simply good. This place is a dream given to the most pure of people. Heaven is the place most would love to go to when they die. Many think that he'll had many different levels of what kind of hell someone receives. I personally believe that there cold be different types of sentences they will live for eternity, but I feel that they are all just as bad as one another. Therfore, I feel there is no levels of hell. In hell I feel that what you do in this world to others, whether in secret or in open, will be used against you in hell such as stabbing others to death and ironically being stabbed for eternity. Or possibly someone that talks about people and then ironically having your tongue cut off and being regrown to do the same thing to you for eternity. Anyway you put it, everyone has the same degree of pain. This pain is measured by what you did in this earth and the outcome of your sentence in hell to be what you did to others in earth or an ironic occurrence of what you did on earth. Lastly, I think of God. He is known for his love and forgiveness, but let it be known that God can be a force to be reckoned with. God judges us all for what we have done, but when a person believes in God and asks for forgives, God does forget what it is you have done therefore, his judgements of you is no more. In my religion, God is right to judge us. He created us and he let us have our choices. We as humans are born in sin and have the opportunity to be born again and to be saved. We all have our own choices, it is ours to be saved and ours alone. Not saving yourself is you saying "Hell make room here I come". Humans have the choice to go to heaven or to hell. My personal choice happens to be heaven.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you and are happy to see that you have similiar views to me. I 100% agree with what you said about humans having the choice to go to heaven or hell. Though some people may not believe that is the case and suffer in the end.
DeleteI absolutely agree with you Tairah, we share the same views on heaven and hell. Heaven is a place of utter happiness where nothing could go wrong and there is nothing to worry about ever again. Whereas hell is a place I fear and never will want to go or do anything to put me there and that it takes something very serious to be done to go there.
DeleteYour description of hell is... graphic, to say the least. It's amazing to have such a vivid depiction in your mind, and I'm not quite sure how I would function knowing that a place like that could await me. The concept of hell is a million times more frightening than any endless void after death; and from the way you describe it it sounds far too easy to end up there. Humans make mistakes, humans do bad things all the time and our only hope is to grow from it- but do any of these small time slip-ups really justify eternal suffering? Christianity is certainly ruthless in it's methods to get you to behave (and I could go into all the things the Catholic church itself have done that are reprehensible crimes, but maybe that is a topic best avoided for now). Your statement that anyone who doesn't believe in your god goes to hell though- isn't that extreme? That's saying that someone could be the kindest person to exist, they could save millions of lives and be a veritable saint but if they don't believe in your version of god then they will be forced to suffer with the most vile mankind has to offer? Just a bit harsh. But it is interesting to read what someone with much stronger religious beliefs than myself or anyone in my family has. Reading some of these blog posts I've started to realize that I've hardly been exposed to real religion; the church I went to in my early childhood must have been extremely mild because I've certainly never heard of such extremes.
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ReplyDeleteGrowing up, I was always told to my identify myself as a Catholic. I went to religious ed class every monday night. I ate the stale bread thingy at church every Sunday. Before family dinners, I made sure I said "Grace" and topped it off with a sign of the cross hand motion. I was convinced that it was the way life should be. I believed everything the big man with the white robes in front of the church said. And most of all, I had to be a good Catholic girl to save myself from Hell.
At this young age, I believed that hell was some scary, fiery place ruled by the devil to watch over the doomed souls of the underworld. This depiction is a very popular version of hell that is taught throughout the many religions. Due to the unrealistic factors of this idea that many have seemed to find, this old portrayal of the "underworld" has become unpopular as times have changed. Opinions have become more liberated and radical and people seem to be open to individuality and their own takes on the way the world works, instead of turning to a biblical explanation. Siliarly, as time went on and I myself began to shy away from the strict and sometimes very close minded values of the Catholic faith, specifically the mental pciture that appeared in my mind concerning hell changed drastically. I want to believe in some sort of place like hell that holds all of the great sinners of our world. Additionally, I'd like to believe in a place where souls go after life in general if they treated others with kindness and respect. I can't fathom the idea of nothingness after a whole life on Earth has been lived. However, I can't seem to find the belief anymore that people after death are exiled to the devil's torture. Now, forming my own independent thoughts, my version of hell is a place where people that lived a life of injustice towards the innocent are sent until they prove worthy to gain an oppurtunity of pure happiness beyond physical existance on Earth. However, this hell is not a burning pit. It is not oppressed by some biblical ruler. I think the whole idea of hell itself was to motivate and somewhat scare people into following a certain religion's teachings and living out their lives with kindness in hopes of avoiding punishment later. Nevertheless, my idea of hell cannot speak for all because in my opinion, how bad hell can be percieved all has to do with how one's life on Earth has been spent. Who knows? Maybe here on Earth is another planet's hell.
I was raised the same way you were, going to ccd every monday night like it was our job. The church taught us no other way then strictly out of the bible. Thats how we grew up and thats all we knew when we were young and naive.
DeleteTo start off, the discussion of hell is a big controversy in not only our country but around the world. The major shift in the opinion of hell is due to the upcoming of more theories and “evidence” that causes people to over think their own opinion. Is there a hell? I believe there is a hell strictly on what I believe in and my religious beliefs and scripture to prove it. I would describe hell to be a place where nobody would ever desire to be. It is extremely hot and smells like something is constantly burning. At a young age I was brought into the Christian church and believe that you go to hell if you truly don’t believe that Christ died for your sins. Getting to hell and getting to heaven is very simple in my eyes. The two options are to believe in Christ and to not believe in Christ. When it comes to Alighieri’s narrative poem I disagree 100%. I believe that there is one “level” of hell. I also believe that hell wasn’t originally made for God’s people, it was made for Satan. In most religions God is known to being the embodiment of love and grace and though he has the ability to put people in hell where is known for its internal suffering he is still is that God of love and grace. He gives us an option and it is up to us whether to take it or ignore and pay the price of eternal suffering. There are several passages of scripture in the bible that support this. One for example is John 3:16 that’s reads “For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” This is very cut and dry and is easy to understand. It is those who over think this or try to get around this that try to go against scripture instead of reading and studying the facts.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Alighieri and his different levels of hell too. You are right that God gives us the option to decide what we do. We can choose to follow and believe or ignore and not care. Whatever we choose will affect us in the afterlife and we can’t blame God for the good or bad that comes out of it.
DeleteDom, I absolutely concur with your thoughts on hell being intended for Satan. Sin began with the fall of creation, the ultimate rejection of God and his plan. The choice of man at the fall affected man’s relationship with God, with nature and with mankind. Sin didn’t force the creator to cancel His plan but rather sin perverts and hinders our response to His plan. God allows trials in our life to make us aware of our thoughts, attitudes and emotions. It is in the trial that we learn how to yield to God in trusting obedience. When God exposes out hearts through testing, He is leading us away from the ways of the world and into the way that is everlasting. (Psalm 139: 23-24)
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ReplyDeleteI am a Christian which means that I believe in heaven and hell, I grew up in a Christian family and as a young child I went to church regularly. I have never smelt, felt, or even have any idea what hell looks like other than different people’s perception we have seen in cartoons or pictures, which is huge fires ablaze, smoke in the air, and darkness. Since 1999 many things have changed particularly in religion as time goes on there are more and more people questioning religion, they have either stopped believing and became an atheist, was an atheist from the start when they could realistically form their own opinions, or they do not belong to any religion. Since the number of people who believed in religion dropped hence they do not believe in anything having to do with religion, this is why the percentage of people who believed in hell dropped from 60% to 32%. In my opinion your spirit is who you really are and your body is just what your spirit comes in until you die then your spirit leaves your body to rot in the ground while it goes to live where it belongs, based on how you lived your physical life. I agree with Alighieri because there should be different levels of punishment based on your crimes as there is different levels of hell based on the severity of that persons sins. For example if a mother were to simply tell her child not to do a particular thing again that would be a different level of punishment rather than if she were to berate her child for doing something as simple as leaving their clothes on the floor. Same goes for entering the world of hell, there should be different levels of hell for different crimes committed. God is supposed to be very forgiving and if you should ask for his forgiveness he should be understanding and give it to you, so if he were to send someone to hell they would have to commit a serious crime. I believe a serious crime is murder, it is different if a person killed someone else for protection rather than if someone were a mass murderer or a serial killer. A serial killer like, Son of Sam, or a mass murderer like, Hitler, deserve to go to hell because they took the lives of a massive amount of people. The worst thing you could do in my book is commit a gruesome, cold, and unremorseful murder and then do it again in a heartbeat, and I believe they should go to hell and be punished in the worst way for making someone else feel terror, pain, and suffering they could not escape from much like how that person damned to hell will feel.
ReplyDeleteI think it's really interesting that you firmly believe that there are different levels of sin and that a great sinner should be punished more intensely in hell. The fact that you stand by your religious beliefs that there absolutely is a hell, and everyone is at risk to experience its wrath if one sins, makes me take a second look at the faith that I claim to have in my religion. Additionally, it's interesting to me that you, along with myself, can agree that murder is the ultimate sin.
DeleteIt's always nice hearing a view different from mine. I enjoy how you stick by your stance on religion and hell, although I do have one thing to ask. In the bible on multiple occasions God says to love your neighbor and to treat everyone as well as you can, well, by hoping someone goes to hell which is a place of eternal suffering, how is that playing nice? Someone may be just as evil as hitler, who I am not defending, but he wanted the Jewish people to suffer, are we any better by hoping he suffers? That's nothing against you, but more a question no one has given a sufficient answer to yet. In other news, I enjoyed your post. Good stuff, bro
DeleteI completely agree on you're ideas on the levels of hell because every sin should not get the same punishment because mass murders like Hitler or a serial killer deserve they're own degree of hell. The sins people like they committed are higher degree of sin that if I hadn't had proof that such a thing exists I wouldn't believe it happened.
DeleteI don’t agree with Alighieri and the levels. I also don’t agree with you that someone like a murder who killed people should go to hell. He should only go to hell if he decides to not repent for his bad deeds. No matter how gruesome they were, if they ask for forgiveness they are allowed the chance to be welcomed into God’s kingdom. But I admired your strong standing for the different levels of sin and how people should be place with for each level for what they do.
DeleteI didn’t think of it that way but the way you believe that everyone is just a spirit inside a body is pretty exact. Your spirit will go to the place that seems fit for the type of life that you lived. Your opinion on how bad sins are is similar to mine. I agree that some crimes are so small you can just pray for forgiveness and you will be forgiven. There are sins such as murder that cannot always be forgiven. I also feel as though if you commit a purposeful murder then your spirit should be tortured in hell.
DeleteI find your thoughts on sins interesting in the way that there are different degrees of sin in the same way that there are different degrees of actions in terms of how good or bad it is. It makes sense that as a religious individual you believe that punishments in the afterlife work they same way they do in our current life. It's fair to conclude that the punishment received has the same level of seriousness as the action that was done to deserve it.
DeleteI agree with you that not everyone should get the same punishment and the punishment should depend on his or her sin. You did say that God is very forgiving, but you think that if they repent for their sins and truly ask for forgiveness they’d still go to hell? I think it’s a common perception that murder is the worst sin that anyone could commit. I wish that these murderers feel remorse for what they did and see just how much grief they’ve cost families.
DeleteI noticed something missing in your blog that I saw in several people’s blogs as well. You said that people have either become atheists or have been atheists, but you are missing an option. You can still be religious and remain religious while being able to question your religion by keeping the acquired morals and ignoring the beliefs that you disagree with. That is what I am doing. I still go to church every Sunday with my parents, but I don’t believe in many of the things in the bible. I’m waiting for it to be updated based on the culture of the present day world. People may say that the bible was brilliantly written because everything will remain relevant, but what about no sex before marriage? When these scriptures were written, teenage girls married 50 year old men and were stoned if they had sex before marriage. No one is stoned in the present day. Girls don’t marry 50 year old men. Most people get married in their twenties. That law was basically written to protect people from being killed and having a kid at the age of 14 without a husband. I mean, some girls are getting pregnant as teens, but that is just because they aren’t educated very well on safe sex.
DeleteHonestly, I'm enjoying the fact that even though you didn't mention it you chose a serial killer that also later claimed did those murders as a ritual for a satanic cult. And I've been going to Christian churches a long time too and have never been told anything really about what hell was like, so I'm with you there. If I'm thinking of the traditional home-of-the-devil hell my mind only comes up with pictures from old cartoons and something black and red in a pointillism, comic book style.
DeleteBeing raised as a Greek Orthodox Christian and I am fully committed to my faith. And in my faith followers believe in the eternal kingdom and hell. We know that hell exists because in Mark 11:43-48 Jesus talks about hell and says its “where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.” Then Jesus later sacrificed himself for the forgiveness of our sins and opened the gates of hell and freed all the trapped souls. This is what my church and family has taught me about the place of hell. In order to end up in hell my faith says that if you don’t believe and don’t repent you won’t go to the kingdom of God, or if you believe, but don’t practice and repent you also don’t go.
ReplyDeleteAs for the shift in belief from 60% to 32%, it’s because some people have come to terms that believing in such things aren’t important. They are more worried about how their lives are now then what their afterlife will be like. Religion is not their number one priority that they need to care about because people want to be comfortable now and not later. That aside I understand and see hell as a spiritual place rather than a worldly one. Hell is a place that you’re only able to come upon in a spiritual state. It’s a place that you will go to without repenting for your sins. As for the varying degrees of sin and each one punishable in its own way, I don’t believe that. If someone goes and murders someone they too can still repent and be forgiven for their sins and be able to go to heaven.
Finally, God is the embodiment of love and grace. He created us and gave us a soul and body to use and how we choose to use it is what determines whether we go to heaven or hell. We are constantly making choices on things in life, so we can’t blame God in the end for the choices we have made.
Alonna, I agree with you that murder can be one of the worst sins out there. I find it to be unfathomable that someone can just kill someone (unless it's for self defense or for the defense of ones family). People are sick. If you don't like what someone is doing or saying, just walk away from the situation. You should never have to resort to violence to solve a problem. If you do, then you're going to hell. There is no escaping that.
ReplyDeleteI agree with most of the content especially, we have our own choices to make in life. I understand that murder could be the superior sin but I think there is more to it. I think all sin should be judged equally.
DeleteAlright first off, I'm not into picking sides on the religion subject, ask me what I am, I'll tell you I don't know and I like it that way. Now, I believe there has been such a drop in the believers of hell because religion has stopped being the core of what America is based off of. In the beginning of our country, we literally made colleges just to be able to comprehend the bible better. We do have Christian roots, yet as of late, the generations have become more and more dis attached to their religious roots. More and more people are turning to science and their intuition for answers instead of any holy book. Personally, I do believe there is a hell? Ever been to a field of cherries? There is nothing worse in this world. On a more serious note, I believe in hell in a way. I don't believe in it as physical place in the traditional aspect because that just wouldn't make sense to me. Why would a loving God send his children to a place where they suffer forever? Moreover why would he let the Devil run it? Isn't he the reason we all sin and end up there anyways? That would be like someone telling to my child to go steal, then as their punishment I send them to be watched by the man who told him to steal in the first place. I would hope a being far superior to me intellectually would be able to see the stupidity in that. I believe hell is more like a thing, it's supposed to be form of justice. So, hell is what happens in your life since you are a bad person. In a sense, you make your own hell. Based on what decisions you made in life, your version of hell will vary. Now, that's not to say there isn't outliers. There are good people put there who do suffer great loss and pain. I don't have the answer for why that happens, but hey if I did, I wouldn't be writing this. I'd be getting 10% of your paycheck and living comfortably because of your donations. So, in a different universe, thank you everyone. My beliefs come from the different viewpoints I've gotten over the years as well as my own research, to get into my church it requires a $10 down payment and you must give a donation every time you enter, but only at your own free will, every time you enter. If you want to. But if you don't, then big God, little God and bird God will see. Still, free will.
ReplyDeleteAnywho, the two places that are mentioned in the bible are both odd in their own way, one has everlasting fire while the other has everlasting life and suffering. In my opinion, Gehenna has more backing to it historically and solely because of that the reason I find it to be much more likely to be true. As for sin, that's a whole different topic. I do believe that different sins call for different punishments. Someone who steals should not be giving the same judgement as someone who kills. The worst sin someone can do is up to debate, each wrong has consequences that many people don't see. Stealing affects the person who was stolen from and the economy. Killing can cause several people great pain and heartache. Arson can cause death as well as property damage. The worst sin in my opinion is murder, ending the life of another for petty reasons, in fact almost any reason at all is terrible. The only reasons to kill are war and self defense, even those two are arguable. So pretty much, if I have anything to really say here, live your life well and you won't make your own hell. Also, I need donations. That is all.
Splendid, I like the debatable question being thrown into the blog but remember that God has given us our free will to do things sometimes i guess when there are no punishment people dont care about doing bad things so that I think supports the issue on hell in your blog. hope you understood my point. thanks , great job.Bravo
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ReplyDeleteAfter reading many of my classmates opinions on how serious various sins are and which one is worse, I have repeatedly seen the popular phrase "sin is sin." This is true, however I believe that the matter of what a makes an action an actual sin is all a matter of opinion. Obviously, murder can be universally seen as a sin. However, a small child in their own innocent mind may think that the boy who stole their lunch money on the playground is just as much of a sinner. This is why that I don't believe certain acts of injustice and sins will send one into different realms of hell. I think that the severity of sin would be taken care of during one's actual lifetime whether it be an actual punishment like a jail sentence, or simply the feeling of the loss of trust between you and an aquaintance.
If any of you have actually read what I had said about these topics, you may have noticed that I am floundering between sides. I guess this is because I was raised a strict Catholic, but being around so many different people, my tolerance for religious intolerance has grown non existant. I want to hold on to the beliefs I was raised on, but at the same time, I want to express the feelings that I have in my daily life, reguardless if the situation at hand is concerning the after life. Which is why, I may add, that I am once again not able to choose a side of deciding whether or not God is definetly the epitome of love. Though I am very confused with my beliefs, I can certainly say that I believe in God and that He has watched over me during my lifetime. I believe that everything happens for a reason, and some higher power has blessed me with the life I have. However, I sometimes have a hard time with believing the idea of total kindness. It bothers me that with one decision, a great heavenly power can doom someone into eternal suffering. It also bothers me that using the bible, one can conclude that God has killed many people. However, there are no accounts that the devil himself took any lives. Now...I AM NOT saying I am a satan worshipper....at ALL. I am just stating points that give me a reason to not come up with a concise view of how I see God.
Ahh that's interesting. The severity of the sin is settled by our legal system? Never thought of it that way. I mean, back when the legal system sucked, I guess we couldn't rely on that, so I don't necessarily agree with you. I feel as though there is a Christian version of Karma at work.
DeleteI love the way you express your ideas. the severity of a sin humanly is setteld by legal system (Neil) but religiously we make our own intensity of sin but it also depend on who we believe in. Totally, I agree with your points. nice work.
DeleteThe platitude “They don’t make ‘em like they used to” can be said about nearly anything in this world. People complain about how shoes aren’t the same, how television shows are changing for the worst, and people are somehow finding time to complain about the up and coming generation. Within the last ten years the percentage of people that believe in Heaven or hell had dropped. This shift has occurred because people are not immutable. Over time, we are bound to change our minds about a plethora of topics. This time its religion’s turn to go under the microscope. In the 1800s, people were religious; their parents made sure that they had a sense of religious identity. Whether the person was Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, it didn’t matter, as long as they believed in God and didn’t ask too many questions, everything was going to go just fine. Around the 1980s to the 1990s, religion became less of a staple of everyday life. Parents were still teaching their children that God exists, however some of these kids matured in to young adults that are atheist. Atheists will not encourage their children to believe in God. In this century, people want solid evidence that there really is something out there bigger than the universe.
ReplyDeleteAside from the physical universe, I do believe that there is a spiritual universe comprised of Heaven, Purgatory, and hell. Growing up, I was always told that hell is where unsavory characters went for all of eternity. I could not possibly imagine having to spend all of eternity in a constant inferno that reeked of misery even if the road was paved with good intentions. My parents told me that in order for someone to go to hell they have to do something “really bad”. At the age of five or six, something bad (in my mind) was considered not sharing your toys. Now that I am 16 years old, I realize that murder is a crime that will send you to hell (depending upon the circumstances of the murder).
Now, let’s combine my spiritual universe with my physical universe. There is hell in the afterlife, and there is hell on this Earth. Living situations can be quite hellish. For instance, some people are abused by their spouses or their parents. Others may live in the slums of their city without any chance of escaping such horrid conditions. There is even a psychological hell. A schizophrenic hears voices and sees hallucinations; however this is not a “round the clock” experience. In the moments where these people are not being attacked by their illness, they want to escape from what is going on within in them. The struggle is real. They want out. There are only two ways to escape these attacks: more medication and death.
Dante Alighieri’s theory that there are nine levels in hell holds true to me. If someone is a serial killer that shows absolutely no remorse (the person would be considered “amoral”), then they belong in the deepest crevice of hell. On the other end of the spectrum, if you had to steal food to feed your family (I don’t even see why anyone would be in hell for something of this nature, but for the purpose of the argument, let’s just say that this happens), than you belong in a circle right next to the gate. You were trying to look out for your family, which is hardly a sin. Thankfully, God is both a forgiving and an understanding entity. Someone who has to resort to sinning in order to provide for their family will not go to hell. They will be admitted into the Promise Land. If God know that you are truly a rotten apple, He will sentence you to hell. I guess you could call it karma. The fact that Gods puts people in hell doesn’t rattle me at all. If that is where the person needs to be, then so be it. At the end of the day, I cannot sit back and judge people for seeing God differently than I do; my opinion isn’t the one that matters. You have to climb that “Stairway to Heaven” and take that up with God, Himself.
In testing the validity of hell, you begin by relating the proposed shifting of Americans’ opinion on the existence of hell. In finding validity in this, you would have to believe that the American spiritual doctrine has remained unchanged. That being said we must question from 1999-2011 has the shift been in belief of hell or belief in absolute truth? A common thread in the progressively modern culture of America is the idea of tolerance where there is no room for anything that may offend someone. In saying this, is the decline in the belief of hell or in the belief of justice?
ReplyDeleteIn response to my personal beliefs on hell and whether I know what it looks, smells, or feels like and where my beliefs come from, I first must say that I not only believe in hell but also in Heaven and most importantly in a just and Holy God. I choose to live my life according to the Bible rather than according to an ever changing culture. As far as the characteristics of hell, I can tell you what the Bible says. After all, Jesus spoke more about hell than He did about Heaven. In scripture, hell is called “the lake of fire” (Rev 20:14). It is a place that God prepares as a place of judgment for the antichrist, devil and his angels. People who never have accepted Christ will be condemned and punished to the Lake of Fire as well. In the current state of the spiritual world, the souls of those who die without accepting the death of Christ as payment for their sins are kept in waiting in Sheol. The description of Sheol in Luke 16 in the Bible describe it as a place of torment, flame and heat. There are no physical bodies in Sheol currently. Physical bodies will be resurrected at the Great White Throne Judgment and then sent in judgment to the Lake of Fire. The people in Sheol are being held until the day that God will judge them (John 3:36, Luke 13:3-5, Rev 20:12 “the dead small and great” refers to all souls who have died whether famous or insignificant).
In regards to varying degrees of sin and punishment, you first must understand what sin is. In today’s culture, sin is left to the individual to decide what is right; just or unjust. In the eyes of a Holy God, sin is not just breaking the rules but also making something besides God someone’s ultimate value and worth. Sin is the opposite of God. It separates us from His presence (Isaiah 59:2) which is the source of all joy (Psalm 16:11), love, wisdom or good things of any sort (James 1; 17). Due to sin, we are hopelessly lost and undeserving. However, because of God’s grace, His Kingdom will be built up not by destroying the impure but by forgiving and atoning for sins through the death and resurrection of Jesus.
God chooses mercy over fairness. He hasn’t dealt with us according to our sins (Psalm 103:10). In Jesus, the wrath of God is satisfied and His mercy is shown through His loving forgiveness. Life is not fair due to its fallen sinful state but God is always faithful and provides a means for escape. That escape is the way that points to Jesus. As with any personal relationship, there is emotional contact sometimes in conflict leading to repentance, forgiveness and joy. With Jesus, the personal relationship leads to salvation. “For we do not have a high Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need” (Hebrews 4:15-16). (Part 1)
My belief on eternal judgment in relation to the love of God lies in His mercy through Jesus. Mercy allows God’s enemies to be defeated not through the use of outside force but by the inward power of grace, transforming our hearts from within. In a book by Becky Pippert called Hope Has It’s Reasons, she writes, “If I, a flawed, narcissistic, simple woman can feel this much pain and anger over someone’s condition, how much more a morally perfect God that made them? God’s wrath is not a cranky explosion, but His settled opposition to the cancer of sin which is eating out the insides of the human race He loves with His whole being”.
ReplyDeleteSince God is a good righteous Judge, sin against Him must be punished. “But the Lord sits enthroned forever, He has established His throne for justice and judges the world with righteousness; He judges the peoples with uprightness. The Lord is a stronghold for the oppressed, a stronghold in times of trouble. And those who know your name put their trust in You; For you O Lord have not forsaken those who seek you.” (Psalm 9: 7-10) (Part 2)
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ReplyDeleteIt is interesting that the number of Americans who supposedly believe in hell is disproportionate to the amount of people who make a claim religious affiliation. I realize of course that not all religions purport a belief in hell but there is still a disparity in numbers. According to a 2008 study carried out by Trinity College, 76% of Americans identify themselves as Christian and 3.9% identify with “other religions.” Because we are working with approximately 80% of people claiming a religious affiliation, it would seem rational that perhaps 78% or 77% of the population or at least the 76% of Christians would also believe in the existence of hell. However, there is a relatively large gap between the 2011 Gallup poll that stated 32% of Americans believe in the existence of hell or even the 1999 poll that claimed a larger 60% of Americans. Many claim that religion provides comfort and hope to those who feel they need it. I would agree with this statement, and I believe this would also contribute to the inconsistency of the aforementioned figures. Hell is not particularly hopeful, so it would be psychologically satisfying to omit its existence all together from your belief system. As for why I believe the number has dropped from 60% to 32%, I would look no farther than the approximately 20% of people who did not claim a direct religious affiliation. According to the same Trinity College study, the proportion of Americans who identified themselves as nonreligious has grown from 8.2% in 1990 to 15% in 2008. This would make nonreligion, somewhat ironically, the fastest growing religious demographic in the United States. I believe that 15% claim is actually a low ball figure. I speculate that a higher proportion of the population would fall into the nonreligious category. Many who are surveyed do not admit their nonreligion because the right-wing has established a culture of anti-anti-religion. That same culture automatically equates religion with morality. Many feel that if they present themselves as nonreligious, the religious majority would think them to be inferior. To a conservative Irish Catholic, it is bad enough that you could be a Lutheran or other Protestant but if you just blow off a religious belief all together, you might as well be a Kenyan socialist. It is easier to say “I don’t believe in the concept of hell, but I still kind of sort of have my beliefs” than to just come out and say “I believe in no God. I do not believe in the existence hell as a result. ” The decrease in those who claim to believe in hell should logically correlate with the decrease in religious affiliation especially. Sadly, most people’s ideas cannot be simply labeled with a very general name of a church. But as I have speculated, that the true number could very well be higher. The reason I feel confident in my speculation is that I do not believe in hell nor do I claim any religious affiliation myself. Personally, it took me a long time to become able to muster the confidence to say that because I come from a Roman Catholic family. My grandfather is a deacon at Saint Vincent DePaul Parish which is only a quarter of a mile away from our very own Oakcrest.
Part Two:
ReplyDeleteA majority of my family consists of Catholic Republicans. One of my uncles became a carpenter because that was the supposed profession of Jesus Christ. Meanwhile, I sit here as a socialist nonbeliever, and the guilt that has been inflicted on me over the years was overbearing. My Grandfather actually put pressure on me to become a priest. To which I responded: hell no! (Excuse the slight pun) I like my beliefs in individualism and my shaggy hair and my rock and roll music. It’s who I am and it’s not very Christ-like to impose ideas such as this on a young and easily manipulated mind. I do not claim a religious affiliation because the Roman Catholic Church (or any religious institution for that matter) has not given me substantial evidence that I can accept that lends credibility to the ideology that it imposes. But I am not a militant atheist either. I respect the right to differing beliefs and I acknowledge religion’s role in our collective history and culture. I am not closed mined either. If Jesus Christ one day appears before the world at halftime during the Super Bowl, then I will believe in him because to me that is enough evidence. The 2,000 year old texts do not convince me, especially when Pope Francis himself believes that most of the Old Testament is a crock. As a result, I do not believe in a hell as in a physical or spiritual place that evokes eternal torture on humanity. I can draw analogous observations. I believe that hell could be a state of mind. If you are sitting on your death bed and believe you are going to hell, then that in itself is pretty much hellish. But it does not last forever, and I can’t help but think that the notion of hell was fabricated by some ancient elite that sought to keep the laity in check throughout the ages. Today’s secular countries do nearly the same thing with laws. But being punished by some invisible, omnipotent, omnipresent entity is a lot more threatening than being punished by the state. Unless you are Ron Paul of course. The worldly definition of hell seems more likely to exist because there have been major world atrocities that are fit for the phrase “Hell on Earth.”
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ReplyDeletePart Three:
ReplyDeleteTo name some of them would just be an insulting platitude, but it is important to note that a substantial amount of the world atrocities I am sure that all of you can name were committed with religion being a motivating force. Again, I am not convinced by the spiritual evidence. And to state that many world atrocities had religious motivations is not to be anti-religious, but just to do be factual. As aforementioned, I recognize religion’s place in our history and I cannot help if the truth seems to be biased. The fact that hell on Earth can be perpetuated by the institutions that are so ideologically insistent on avoiding hell is in itself contradictory, and this contradiction says a lot about the role religion has played in shaping the world today. I recognize too that to some groups, religion is a very good thing, (in ways such as breeding generous cultures, services for the impoverished)but stating this would be simply out of context when addressing Man’s perpetuated idea of hell. It is difficult to weigh in on the subject of punishments being proportional to the severity of the sin committed when I do not believe in such things. I would like to believe that in a fair and just world of religion that certain punishments would be appropriated for more sever crimes. It only makes sense. It is evident in our legal system in that a speeding violation does not result in a lifetime in jail and that a murder does not result in a one hundred dollar fine. I believe that the worst sin/crime is unjustified murder. It is something that is implied by a majority of legal systems around the world, and I can agree that there is not much worse that you could do than take the life of an innocent individual or group of individuals. As for how it should be dealt with, I only believe an eye for an eye is valid in the most extreme circumstances because there is innocence in everyone. Finally, I believe that the notion that an all a being that is supposed to be all-loving could create and enforce a place like hell. Love has been defined by important biblical figures. Saint Paul wrote: “Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.” (Corinthians 13: 4-7) I reiterate that though the Christian perspective does/should not apply to all religions, I believe this description of love is something that a majority of people can subscribe to. The fact that love “keeps no record of wrongs” seems to dispel the notion that hell can even exist. If God holds no record of wrongs, how can he punish you for any wrongs in your life? Let alone send your soul to be tortured for eternity. To me, this cannot be reconciled.
David, 1 Corinthians 13: 4-7 is one of my favorite passages in scripture because it is a beautiful depiction of the love that God bestows on those that accept Him. He is a loving God who wants what is best for his children. That is why He gave us this world, to be stewards of it and enjoy it whole heartedly. However, at the moment that mankind fell (Genesis 3) the entire world fell with it. God did not intend for us to live in a corrupt world full of torment or pain. He wants to draw close to us in every aspect of our lives. However, in giving us the freedom to decide for ourselves whether or not to have a relationship with him, sin entered the world. The spirit of man is strong but the body is weak. God is a holy God and is all that is good; therefore He must remain separate from sin. In knowing this and having a broken heart that we, his beloved creation, were now separate and destined for destruction, he gave us the most important gift that we can decide to receive. He sent Jesus into this world to pay for the sin and take the punishment that we deserve to bear. God is not a God who wishes to inflict pain on any one of us. He is a God of reconciliation and second chances. Anyone with a repentant heart He will forgive. Therefore, when you quoted that love keeps no record of wrong, you are correct. Once an individual has an intimate relationship with God in which there is an unconditional love, God forgets all records of their wrong because they were fallen and lost but have come back to him through repentance. However, those that chose to reject God must still be punished because they have not asked God to forgive their sins and remain separate from God because as I stated earlier, God is the opposite of sin. He doesn’t wish to remain apart from us, but he is a holy and righteous judge who cannot condone our sins. It is when we seek him whole heartedly that we experience his grace, truth, love and mercy.
DeleteThe exponential shift of the percentage of those who have believed in hell is astounding and I believe this is due to the fact that those who have faith in religion in general have decreased. Especially at our level the number of atheist is always increasing so with that fact the number of those who believe has decreased. I do believe in hell because I believe in heaven and with that there’s got to be a hell. I’ve heard countless things about the appearance of hell from books, church, and the media but on that front I have formed my own opinion. I believe that when we die if we should go to hell we each experience in our own variations whether it’s by suffering through an endless stream of witnessing our bad actions or having to face our worst nightmare until the end of eternity. Basically my definition of hell is you’re worst fears because no one person is the same so no one person should experience the same eternity of hell plus I think our hell is the worst thing we could possibly imagine and I don’ t think that’s the same for all people. The Old Testament’s view is more realistic to me because it fits directly with the views I was raised with and even though it’s not a tangible thing or places it honestly makes the most sense to me. Lying is a sin and everyone does it so if you lie on occasion is that the same as stabbing someone without cause no. One sin that I do think requires the worst punishable imaginable Is that of people who murder children by means of a knife, gun, or any other direct weapon because if you’re coming at a child with a knife you’re not defending yourself you are causing and innocent harm. So unless you are in a war zone and the child is carrying a bomb then there is no reason for that situation to occur. I do believe in the grace of god even though there is a place for eternal damnation because earth could be a lot worse, life could be a lot worse and it’s not nearly as bad as it could be.
ReplyDeleteI like your input on the definition of hell. It's interesting to think that former living souls experience different types of punishments for their sins. It's also quite eerie to think that hell could be a place where you face your worst fears that have been gained from a previous life.
DeleteI like what you think about the definition of hell. It’s interesting to think of hell being your worst fears. Since we do face our worst fears through Earth sometimes, does this mean that you believe hell is basically Earth except 1,000,000 times worse? You’re right that the murder of an innocent child is one of the worst sins that you could think of. I do like your positivity, but I do hope that the Earth would get better, even though it could be a lot worse.
DeleteTamirah I really enjoyed your concept of hell. Because this reminds me of the five people you meet in heaven. The story is about the five people who affected your life and they show you past experiences. This is very similar to your concept because of the fact that if we died we would witness of bad actions and face our worst nightmare. This was very interesting because it support my idea that there is more than one theory of the after life and it not just a black and white answer.
DeleteI grew up in a religious household. Every Saturday or Sunday and religious holiday my parents brought my siblings and I to church. On top of that, I went to Catholic school and had Catholicism shoved down my throat for nine years. Not until this past year have I really questioned what I was taught to think. There was never any room for me to think otherwise because I was constantly being reminded of this contradictory belief system. I was taught that all of the bad people who have committed a sin or sins on the list of deadly sins would go to hell or something along the lines of that while everyone else would either wait in purgatory for a bit while they ask for forgiveness or go straight to heaven. Go ahead and correct me if I’m wrong on that because I blocked most of the beliefs I used to know from my brain. I’m sure I’m not too far off.
ReplyDeleteI always imagined hell to be this cave that reeked of decaying bodies, had a lava pit surrounded by undying fire, and felt like you were standing on the sun; the devil would look like Him from the Powerpuff Girls. I guess you could say that my belief came from multiple sources…the bible, cartoons, friends, and movies. Currently, I am at war with myself on this topic. Right now, I don’t believe that there is a hell; personally, I think that “hell” was created to scare people into having morals and making good decisions in life. I think that after death there is nothing. It is a very unsettling idea which is why I believe “heaven” was created. It was created to make people more comfortable with losing loved ones and dying. All of this ties in with the Valley of Hinnom, the place where fires never died, and “souls would reside.” The Valley of Hinnom seems much more realistic to me compared to Gehenna. I don’t agree with the part in regards to everlasting life and everlasting contempt. Once you are dead, you are dead, and that’s that. Therefore, I also don’t believe in Dante Alighieri’s theory of the nine circles of hell.
I still think of myself as a Catholic because I haven’t legitimately left the church even though I don’t agree with a large amount of their beliefs. I think the bible is outdated, and the new pope should continue to make changes in the religion for the better. That is partially why the percentage of people who believe in hell has dropped. The other reason is that people are being taught to think differently and independently. When given that freedom, the possibilities are limitless. We are a new generation of thinkers. We have been given the freedom to explore different views on topics such as hell and whether or not God is the one that sends people to hell. In Catholicism, I’m not exactly sure if it is reconcilable to be forgiven for a person to imagine that God, the embodiment of love and grace, sends people to hell. I am fairly certain it is reconcilable because I specifically remember being taught that you can be forgiven as long you ask for forgiveness from God through Reconciliation and penance. Regardless of how weird it may seem to ask a figure (that may not exist) for forgiveness, there is a plausible reason behind it. It is easier to as an invisible figure for forgiveness than an actual person. Asking for forgiveness gives you a sense of peace within, so I’ve come to the conclusion that not all of Catholicism is bad. “Hell” was created to help us become better people, but it is just one of those beliefs that are becoming outdated.
I love the reference to the Powerpuff Girls. It gives me a good mental image as it was a show I used to love as a kid. You never really said it outright and I was kind of confused about it so, do you believe the worldly or spiritual destination is more realistic? You didn't exactly say much about Aligheri's views and I didn't really understand how you connected it to Gehenna. However, I do agree with you when it comes to why the percentage of people who believe in hell has dropped. As a new generation comes, new views come with them and therefore, views on hell and God will not be the same as those of a past generation.
DeleteGabbie I really like how you disagree on a religion you know your whole life. Normally people will stick to and believe in what they know or were taught. I am doubting my religion ideas of dying then going to hell so they could be reborn until they can go to heaven. But the fact that I was taught this I have this connection that reminds me of who I am and I wouldn’t want to give up. So I applaud you for disagreeing with your religion. I also like how you describe hell because I could really picture that and the reference to him made me laugh so good job.
DeleteAs a strong believer in Jesus Christ, and a christian, I believe that there is a “hell” after you die. I believe Jesus Christ died for our sins, but there is a special seat in hell for the disrespectful little punks that don’t know how to behave. I’m not talking about school, but in real life. People who can’t control themselves and commit crimes “just because.” I think that the number dropped so drastically because people don’t believe in life after death. Some people believe in reincarnation, and other people just believe you rot in the ground. Our generation it is like a crime to be taught religion in school. Back then, you could learn religion, and most people had morals. Now its basically illegal to talk anything close to religion and therefore I don’t think people have beliefs because they don’t know anything unless they practiced a certain religion. It also could be because there are so many different religions, people believe in all different things. I believe hell exists. I imagine it as a hot, red and black cave underground, filled with fire and flames. I think all you do is get tortured and slave over the devil. I think this is what hell looks and feels like because my pastor at church always explains it this way. No one really knows what hell is like, so it really is just our imagination to picture what it could be.
ReplyDeleteI honestly don’t know if anyone on this earth thats alive knows anything about hell, but one thing I do believe is that it is in fact a spiritual place. Just like heaven, I don’t think you can just show up at a place, knock on the door and visit whoever you’re looking for. This is my question; whenever someone dies, everyone is always saying “heaven gained another angel”, but how do you know that they went to heaven? Why do you just believe in heaven and not hell?
I believe the worst sin you can commit is murder. I believe only Jesus Christ should have the power of people being born and dying. Adding to that, I do believe that hell has various circles. I think that depending on what people did in their life times they should be judged for it whether it was good or bad.
Everyone should be accountable for they’re own actions. Maybe God is the one who created a hell, but there is a reason for everything. Would you want to be peacefully resting in heaven with a serial killer that killed teenagers? Do you even think that person has a right to be even standing in the same place that you are? That man deserves to rot in hell with the rest of the murders and filthy people.
As time passes, views change, people change, but there will always be a divide between people that do and don’t believe in hell. I grew up in a very religious household; however, my parents are of different religions. My mom’s a Roman Catholic and my dad’s a Methodist, which means that I do go to church twice every week. I never really thought of all the teaching of the church and such until last year, and this was due to me being an active member of a group that sings in our church. I did go to a Catholic school for part of my life so the belief of committing deadly sins and you going to hell for it was something that was instilled into my mind. There’s also the belief that if you were a good enough person you would go to heaven. I’m not entirely sure on the how to get to heaven or hell, but I do know that this is a big part of Roman Catholic beliefs. As I got older, I started to question the existence of heaven, hell and even the existence of Christ, I believe as time passes, people progress and change views after they learn more and this is why there was such a shift on the people that believe in hell.
ReplyDeleteI want to believe that hell doesn’t exist, but there’s a big part of me that’s really scared it does. I’ve always thought hell to be a place completely surrounded by fire, with lava all around and the devil just watching every move you make. I imagined it to smell of burnt things and to feel extremely hot due to the fire. The beliefs I’ve accumulated over the years have come form a mix of people. My parents, the church and even my friends have said things here and there to affect my beliefs. I’ve always been taught that committing one of the seven deadly sins or just sinning would send you to hell, but wouldn’t that mean that we would all go to hell? I don’t think there is a hell, but I do hope there is a heaven. However, I’m also scared that heaven was just made up to make us feel less pain with the death of our loved ones. I’ve always hated the topic of death because it always made me think, where will we end up after death? Is there really a place where we go? I’ve always thought of a spiritual place, not a worldly destination to be where people end up to be after death. We might be what people call dead, but I’d like to think that our souls would be brought to a sacred place.
I’ve always been taught that sin is sin, but I do think that there are varying degrees of sin. I do think that each so-called sin is punishable in its own way. I think of it as the judicial process. Each person that commits a crime basically commits a sin; therefore, I believe that each sin is punishable in its own way. The worst sin that I think anyone could imagine is murder. I don’t know how people could just go and kill other people. I believe that murderers should be brought to hell, brought to feel the grief that the victim’s family goes through and feel absolute remorse for what they did.
God is of course the center of my religion. They always mention how he might be the cause of all the suffering, but they always say to just pray and he will make things better. As one of the songs I sang in church said, “be strong in the Lord and never give up hope, you’re gonna do great things I already know.” That’s what I think of whenever I think of religion. He might bring suffering, but he will make things better. God might be sending people to hell, but maybe it’s for them to learn a lesson, for them to learn from their mistakes. I don’t exactly know if there is a God, but I’d like to believe that there’s someone out there watching us and helping us get through everyday.
Danielle I could really connect with your post. I mean I am scared of the after life, but I doubt you are as afraid as I am. I am so scared that somehow I convince myself that after we die we will relive our life when we die. That is how bad I was traumatized as a child from the many drawings of Hell and the demons there. There is no doubt every single person in the world is afraid of death. Life may contain hard time but there are good times that you want to hold dear and when we die those thing go away. That is what is scary about life is the thought of losing everything. But beside that great job on the post.
DeleteDanielle I wish I had your belief system. I was already pretty well aware of your beliefs and church involvement, and even though I knew you were a Methodist (if it has anything to do with it because I don't know enough, but you said it like it does) it didn't occur to me that you might not believe in a hell. It'd be nice, but I don't think I could imagine a heaven without a hell. In my mind things need to be balanced, so it's all or nothing. In my reply to Emily I told her I was jealous of her for being untainted by religion, but I'm jealous of you on two accounts. One is what I said about thinking of heaven and no hell, but the other is just having really clear beliefs. Though I don't agree with you on what exists and who goes to hell, the fact that you say what you think simply with no little disclaimers is something I really respect.
DeleteThroughout my entire life, I have always been the only one of my friends who doesn’t go to church. My parents have never tried to make me attend church like everyone else because they are not very religious. They were not against church but they preferred not to get involved with it. I was so shielded away from religion that I did not know who God was until I was about six years old. My best friend at the time was shocked to learn that I didn’t go to church on a regular basis. She viewed me a little differently than usual and I didn’t know why. As I grew up, I began to realize that church and religion was something that was commonly involved in many people’s lives. I felt a little left out as the only one who wasn’t attending a service every Sunday. I had felt even more left out when all of my friends were having Communion celebrations while the only special day I had to celebrate was my birthday. Although I felt like the odd one out, I never had the strong urgency to actually attend church or learn about a religion in depth. I learned to view myself as special rather than unusual. Now that I’m older, I don’t really mind the fact that I lack faith in comparison to my peers. I have concluded that I am not sure if there is a holy spirit out there looking out for us. I’d like to think that there is a deity that will protect us and bring us to a heavenly place in the afterlife. However, I don’t have any proof that there is any sort of unworldly spirit that exists. I wouldn’t call myself an atheist because I have a small ounce of belief in a God of some sort. There are many things beyond our knowledge so who knows what does and does not exist. I have also come to realize that I am not a big fan of church although I find religion interesting. In my opinion, going to church does not make you a good person in the same way that standing in a garage doesn’t make you a car. Many people have used church and religion as a way to excuse poor behavior and I find that disappointing. I am also not very fond of the hypocritical and unmoral teachings that is common in many worship houses, but that’s another story. The dramatic drop in the number of people who believe in hell from 1999 to 2011 is not surprising to me. We have progressively focused less on religious teachings and more on enforcing independent thinking. Religion is not as major in our lives as it was 10+ years ago and I think that’s okay. Those who may have grown up with religion shoved down their throat are now able to form their own ideas about religion because our society has become a little more open to individualistic opinions. If there is a spiritual world out there, I am hoping that hell is nonexistent. If there were really a God out there looking out for and forgiving us humans then why would a harsh place like hell exist in the first place? The legendary rivalry between Satan and God is very confusing to me. Why would Satan want to punish the sinners in order to please a deity that he despises? As you can see, I am very religiously naive so maybe my input doesn’t even have value. To sum it up, I am not sure what does and does not exist. It’s nice to think that there is a place for our spirit to go to in the afterlife but I am still skeptical about it’s existence. If there is a God, I am hoping that he is just as loving and forgiving as everyone seems to depict him as. If there is a heaven, I really hope there isn’t a hell. A worldly destination after death sounds more realistic to me and I shouldn’t have to fear negative judgements on my beliefs.
ReplyDeleteI'm also disappointed and almost disgusted with the fact that some people consider themselves better than others only because they go to church every week. There is a few people, that still to this day, really do say stuff straight to my face like "come to church with us this week, it could really help you turn your life around." Let me say for one, I'm not close with them. Two, how does going to church turn somebody's life around who doesn't even believe strongly in God? And three, why does my life need to be turned around... Some think that they are better than others because of that.
DeleteJust so you know, the fact that you're "religiously naive" does actually give your opinion value. You haven't been as brainwashed or tainted as some of us, because you've just never been bothered with religion at all. You represent the more middle area of the spectrum. I'm actually a bit jealous, and I do think you're right in saying we're just more focused on independent thought, because at this point I think you're in the majority at least of most people I've known. Religion itself is interesting, church itself isn't, and if there is something out there we can only hope it's as good as we think.
Delete“Whatever you’re going to believe is fine. Just don’t try and tell me that my beliefs are wrong because they are different than yours. “ This what my mother told my brother and I growing up about religion. In the wise words of Bunje, “if you can prove something, then it’s right.” However, you cannot prove whether there is a God or not. Therefore, anybody is wrong or right in what they believe in because there is no correct answer. The poll that was taken isn’t much of a surprise to me. It seems that more over the years, people are opening up more to their own beliefs. I feel like before parents and schooling was stricter on what they taught students before they weren’t aloud to teach religion. And for parents, I feel that they were stricter and that going to church every Sunday was more of a daily routine and a part of life. Now I see it like people only go if they have time and if they feel like it. People are much more busy now and more wrapped up in their own lives. As for my beliefs, I don’t really believe that there is one God. I don’t believe in any one higher notable “thing” I guess to look up to. People say “God has a plan for me.” I take out the “God has a-“ part and just say “There’s a plan for me.” I’m controlling the plan, because there is one for my life, and it’s just going to take me doing everything I can to either achieve that plan, or get to somewhere else I would like to be. I believe in myself. Strange, huh? I’m not saying I’m some type of God or anything, but I am saying that I’m in charge of my life- not some type of spirit or God. If I wake up with a positive attitude, do everything I can at my best effort and think about everything in a good way, then I consider that a pretty great day. That’s what gets me through the day- my mind and how I perceive myself, and everything around me. Now onto Hell. It’s so strange because when I was little I thought of it as this bright red cave with fire all in it and a red devil with a pitchfork hurting and bossing around the prisoners who weren’t so lucky to make it to “heaven.” The bible says that your soul is what transfers either to Heaven or Hell. Personally, I don’t believe there is a Hell. I think that Hell is all in your mind. My belief is that when you die- that’s it. It’s like you’re sleeping and you never wake up- except you don’t get to dream. You’re just done. Some people think I’m weird or think that’s not good that’s what I believe in, but that’s how I view it. We have a soul while we live, and it can either be good or bad. However, when our body dies, so does our soul. Therefore, canceling out the Heaven or Hell evaluation after death. I have many theories on why I think this, and it all comes back to my childhood. Being little and having somebody close to me pass away, and going to their funeral was a scary thing. Seeing the body in the casket and going up to it was frightening. However, all I could think inside my head was, “How can a figurative soul just exit the body and leave it’s physical parts here, and leave it’s friends and family saddened?” Of course it was said in the terms and thoughts of a five year olds brain. But, that’s what I thought. So from that point on I realized that our “souls” are alive while our body is alive- and that’s it. Growing up I never went to church. I can count how many total times I’ve gone to church in my sixteen years of living on one hand, but that’s how I liked it. If I did particularly believe that there was a Hell for your soul to go to after passing away, I don’t think that there would be “levels” like Dante Alighieri thought. IF you did something to get to Hell, I’m pretty sure it’s pretty negative no matter what. The fact that “God as being the embodiment of love and grace yet imagine that it is through his word that people descend into Hell,” is another thing that blows my mind. People say that God is supposed to be about forgiveness and supposed to love everybody- why does “he” send people to Hell then? The question that haunts me for those who believe in God and are strong in the religion.
ReplyDeleteYou made many good points that I could agree with. Just like you, I am not a firm believer in any spiritual world because it just doesn't seem realistic to me. I like how you don't mind being an individual who does not actively go to church. I was raised in a similar way and I have learned not to feel ashamed in my lack of faith. We shouldn't have to feel guilty for having beliefs that are different from our peers.
DeleteI really want to know what your idea of a soul is i hope one day you could explain it to me. Also i like the self reliance and motivation it really shows that you don't need a religion. But you're definitely inferring that you're a higher being...
DeleteNo im saying i believe in myself to guide me through life, meaning i believe that its allllllll on me to get to where i want to be, it gonna take my hard work and determination, not anybody else or a spirit or god.
DeleteThe exponential drop in the belief in hell can be attributed to the historical decline in religious fervor in the United States. The number of atheists and agnostics are constantly growing, in part due to a growingly diverse population, the increase in scientific knowledge, and the polarization of certain religions with political ideology. Cultural movements led by people of the likes of Richard Dawkins (the so-called militant atheists) can also claim some responsibility. Somehow, belief in God seems to be linked more and more to one’s political beliefs. God-fearing individuals tend to be conservative; atheists and agnostics tend to be liberal, leading to what seems like a less-inclusive religion than in nation’s past.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I do believe a hell exists -- a personalized one of sorts. Hell for each of us would be personally designed to be the worst form of torture -- it would encompass psychological torture as well as the perceived the physical pain. My personal hell would be a cold, black void, devoid of all sensory input except feeling and hearing. It would have intense winds and an electromagnetic-gravitational field that would slowly spaghettify my entire body. Essentially, it would be the equivalent of flying into a black hole. I am not sure where this idea came from. I guess when the History Channel decided to explain what it would feel like to fly into a black hole, I found it especially terrifying – more terrifying than anything I’ve ever heard actually. If I were a deity designing hell, that is what I would make it for myself. To get into my concept of hell, you would have to do the irreconcilable: ruin someone’s life. I will touch upon my retribution theory later on in this post.
The later description of Sheol in the Old Testament is much closer to my representation of a metaphysical hell. Hell’s representation should always be spiritual instead of a crass worldly destination like Gehenna.
Of course, there are varying degrees of sin. Certain acts against spiritual righteousness are more offensive than other acts. The most irreconcilable sin is ruining another human’s life. Of course, this is quite broad in scope. There are numerous ways to ruin someone’s life, the most obvious one being murder. Then of course, there are wounds inflicted that, while not killing the person, cannot be healed. Such include the obvious abuses, rape, torture, etc. In my concept of hell, there is no eternal condemnation. If God and Jesus really are the merciful, salvational forces we attest them to be, then I find it hard to believe they could put you through hell for all over eternity with no hope of redemption. That is exceptionally cruel. However, there is a need for retribution. In my concept of hell, you would serve as many years in hell as you have destroyed in a person’s life. So if you are responsible for destroying one person’s life, you are looking at 70 to 100 years. If you are Adolf Hitler, you are looking at 80*12,000,000 years.
As I said, it seems incredulous to think a great, merciful God would condemn any human, no matter how flawed or evil, to eternal damnation. I would not have the heart to watch all those people in Hell suffer from the metaphorical cloud of Heaven that God resides in. In the Gnostic Gospel, it is said that Peter asked Jesus how it could be ethical to subject souls to such a terrible fate as eternal hell. In a poor summation, Jesus responded that all those damned in hell would be allowed into Heaven when someone in the Kingdom looks down and asks him for their freedom. He also told Peter not to tell anyone. Of course, this particular Gnostic text was banned by the Catholic Church and excluded from the Holy Canon.
i love how although what you belive is outlined of a preexsisting relgion, you still personalized it. It shows that you think deeply about important things like religion. I also like your perception of hell, its a mystifying kind of cool
DeleteThe way I see it, half the stuff that describes hell is made up, so I figure those people are no more qualified to speculate what hell is than I am.
DeleteEver since I can remembered as a little girl, my family and I would go to church each week. Growing up as a Christian I had the belief that if you were a good person throughout your life that you would go to heaven after you died, and if you did really bad things within life you would go to “hell”. Hell at the time to me was the stereotypical place of total bad, a place that was always on fire and very red, hot and smelled awful. Now a little older, and have done more research and studying on religion my views have changed as the knowledge of the topic has expanded a bit. The decrease of Americans who believe there is a hell dropping from 60% to 32% is really odd to hear, though this reasoning may be from the decreasing size of people who go to church these days. I don’t believe as many people go to church today compared to just a few years ago. As I stated before I had an idea of what hell was about. Now I still belief that there is a hell. I believe that there is a heaven for those who are good in life and ask God for forgiveness on some sins. Heaven is for the good, so my view there must be a place for the bad, which we call “hell”. Nowadays I don’t picture hell the same way, but I still have the general idea that it is a place where only really bad people go; I also have the sense that it smells still that awful smell and isn’t very pleasant looking. But again these are just views, I haven’t visited hell and I plan on not visiting hell. I have these views based on what I have learned in church, I wouldn’t say I’m extremely religious, so hearing friends views sometimes makes me double think my own ideas, but I still have the general idea. In my view to get into hell, one must commit a sin. Yes there are various amounts of different sins as Alighieri had said, from murder, to stealing, from cheating on a test to torturing someone. Some such as the torturing and murder are of different degrees and in most cases if done intentionally it’s hard to ask for forgiveness, but for sins just as stealing from a store or cheating on a test, people can ask for forgiveness. The worst sin I see is if someone tortured another to their death. With the intension of killing one they add the effect of torture. Hell could be either a worldly destination or a spiritual place of everlasting contempt. The place of Gehenna displays a place of burning fires and a “dump”, while sheol is more based on the spiritual idea, not really sure how to identify which one makes more sense when in reality hell to many people is the place, where bad is sent for the life after death. This topic all and all can be a confusing one, for not everyone has a clear understanding or idea of their beliefs. I do believe in God, though I sometimes question why he punishes the good with hurtful or bad issues. The suffering in hell due to commitment of a sin is one thing, but punishing people who have only asked for help and forgiveness doesn’t make sense to me.
ReplyDeleteYou're idea of hell reminds me of the Hercules Disney movie and Hades. Hades (in greek mythology) is a lonely bad place which also transfers to Christianity. i keep wondering "what if hell isn't as bad as we think?" i also wonder how we know hell is bad, since we're seeing such a skewed view because only the bible has told us what hell is like. So i guess i really want to provoke you to look up the other side of the story. Heck look up Satanist perspectives. I wouldn't recommend becoming one though. They're always the ones who bring demons into those ghost movies.
DeleteSuch a sharp decrease in belivers is not very surprising to me. Our world is more science based and no longer turns to religion for security and morals; it takes too much time and thought. Our world is all about ourselves, no one is worried about the greater good, and they are selfish. Religion keeps people in line and it gives purpose to life. I have explored many religions and one of the most dissatisfying was an atheistic outlook. All in all it’s just depressing. How can you even care about a thing when you believe it all goes into the ground and are worthless? I felt like I had no purpose and that there wasn’t really a point to life then, was there? I might also point out that I’m not a Christian either. I have my own perspective on life which I find fulfilling and purposeful. I’ve come to my stance on religion through my own introspection and my beliefs are similar to Hinduism, Buddhism and transcendentalism. However, I was raised a roman catholic and to me it just never felt right. To me it felt too suppressing and “iffy”; no definitive answers it was all interpretation. I also didn’t like how Catholicism made me feel below and under control of someone, that’s not love in my eyes. Even if I wanted someone to watch over me and judge me, I would not want them to not see my perspective and not appreciate my decisions. For example, theft is a sin. What if I stole someone’s clothes because I was so poor I’d freeze to death? Why would I deserve to go to hell for that? Yes I believe that karma will get you for that, but it will be a punishment of equal value. Logically, to me that makes sense. To balance the good and bad in the world, the universe must give back to you what you put out to it; equality. From my own interpretation of the bible I think they mean a spiritual hell, unless they were literally throwing people into a fire, then those killers need to go to hell. I just can’t see the justification of killing someone for not believing something you do. For something that should help your life, there is way too much fighting and killing for a belief.
ReplyDeleteThe idea of life after death is a very difficult question and just the thought of it scares me. People for a long time was kind of expected to believe that after death a person will go to either heaven or hell. However as knowledge of science was unraveled many people started to have different opinion. Heaven and hell is just one idea of the afterlife, but it isn’t the only idea. In life there could be many answer to just one question so why can’t that be applied to the question of afterlife? Many people may believe that something happen in the afterlife but we aren’t sure what it is and we probably won’t know. Others may not believe that there is an afterlife and there is only one life. This might explain the dropped in the poll because people have learned about heaven and hell, but they also know about science and this may affect their belief in the after life. My family is Buddhist and they believe in Heaven and Hell and I do believe in this too an extent. But I am scared of the afterlife. I don’t know what hell is like but I have seen monk’s interpretation of what hell is like and it is downright scary. Hell is like a separate world that is in a cave where there is fire, torturing machine, and demons everywhere. The smell of hell would be filled with burning blood, carcass and burnt flesh. The way it feels is that people will always be burning because they are surrounded by fire everywhere. Monsters, animals, and demons will be torturing, eating, and killing people who are sinners so they are cleansed from their sins. They then are reborn into the world as an animal like a sheep, goat or pig. I know this sound stupid and crazy but that is what I learned through the monks drawing of hell. I was traumatized by seeing these drawings because they were so real and vivid which kind of affected me since I was afraid of death ever since. My belief comes from my family who are Buddhist and they taught me the customs of Buddhism from vegetarian meals to praying. I am not really Buddhist so I don’t know really what things you do to get into hell, but I think you have to do some great sins. This is okay because you will be reborn as long as it takes for you to go to heaven. The spiritual world sounds more real because when we die our souls is lifter from our physical body and is judged. The souls could go to nirvana and will rest for eternity or to hell so we could be reborn until we get to heaven. I believe that there are varying degrees of sins. Because in the after life people are judged and so their sins are categorized as whether if it is serious or not. In Buddhism people just have to be a good person because there is a difference between a bad person and people who do bad things. People from times to times commit sins but that doesn’t mean they are bad people. The worst sin a person can commit would be murder because not only did he or she take a life away but you also ruin their family life. For this kind of sins people would be tortured and beat up to bloody pulp until they are cleansed. Buddha is always trying to teach people a lesson so he is trying to teach people who are bad to be good when they are reborn into their next life. Buddha will punish people in hell if they commit sins so they will learn. God will forgive everyone as long as they realized their mistakes. Buddha is a good god because he doesn’t give up on souls and that is why he allows them to be reborn until they get to eternal rest. Again the afterlife is only based on people opinions and that is why is such a difficult questions to answer because of the many different opinions.
ReplyDeleteLike so many others here, I was also raised to be a good, church – going little girl. My family is a mess of contradictions, but the one thing that both of my parents had in common was their faith in the supernatural. It was beat into me that as long as I was someone who acted worthy, everything would be good and fine, always. I’d be given the world and go to heaven – I just couldn’t ever sin or skip church. CCD class was the place to be. But then there was a period of maybe 2 years when I never went at all, and by the time I went back again I didn’t care. It occurred to me that I was just choosing beliefs based on what I was told and I resented it. My belief system isn’t exactly in line with what Christianity is said to stand for, but I can understand why it would be thought up and believed even now. If people need something to believe in to teach them how to behave and it makes them feel better about the emptiness of the universe I’m all for it, but I sure as hell (hah) am no real kind of believer. The day my parents realize this there’ll be quite a throw-down, but to satisfy them I keep my mouth shut. I won’t even bring up any of the science about why I think it’s wrong, and to resist going on a rant I’ll just say that the image of fire and brimstone is a little ridiculous to me. Despite that, my thoughts on religion and whether or not hell exists are all kind of muddled because I just don’t bother thinking about it anymore. There’s no way of knowing, and to think about it all just makes it blend into one terrible, depressing cycle.
ReplyDeleteIf there is a hell, I’m probably going there. A lot of people are. But I just don’t understand how it works. I’ve always tried my best to be a good person, because it’s just how I am, and I like being that way. But if I’m feeling angry and I force myself to be calm, isn’t it just as bad as if I lash out? Isn’t the root of being good based on ‘genuineness’? When I did attend religious ed, I was told that the definition of sin was any word, thought, or act against God, and his wishes, and I’m pretty sure if we’re judged at any point by thoughts we’re all screwed.
No one ever told me straight what hell was like. A place of fire, and the devil, and eternal suffering is the general consensus. My older brother used to loudly declare what layer of hell his daily exploits would make him go to when he died, and my dad was the same. Honestly I can only imagine the things I’ve read in old Greek and Roman myths. I think it’s my favorite way to imagine the underworld. In these myths if the dead can pass through, they’re given specific punishments for all they’ve done wrong, and though they’re cruel, they work. It’s twisted but I appreciate things like that, because if one day I decided I would invite all-powerful beings to my house to feast upon my son, and then I spent the afterlife tormented by food and drink, I’d deserve it.
Hell is just something I’ve never known the true rules for. Basically, if you’re bad you go there and that is the extent of my problem. Considering everything in life should be taken in context, it’s not really possible for me to say that everyone that ‘bears false witness’, commits adultery, or even kills definitely deserves to be there. One of the things I like about some of those God-fearing religions is the thought that if someone is truly sorry they’ll be forgiven, but just like my thoughts on acting good genuinely, being genuinely apologetic is also extremely difficult. I can’t decide, but if God is supposed to be everything good and just and ‘He’ sends anyone, or anyone not 1000000% worthy of going to hell there, he kind of sucks.